NewBeetle.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well after having issues with my wifes transmission i decided to search to see how else had this issue....turns out a lot of people. Enough for there to be a class action lawsuit brought againt VW regarding failure of the 01m.

The reason for my post is to ask is my only option for repair really putting another ticking time bomb 01M back in? Or will one of the newer 09A or 09G transmissions 1) fit in the car and 2) if the newer trans fit...will the computer be able to be tuned to work with these trans.

the car is an 04 beelte with 1.8t and (obviously) 01M 4 speed auto.
 

·
Super Moderator
Cup- 2k New Beetle GLS/ 'Chino- 13 Beetle 2.5
Joined
·
20,855 Posts
The Parts Place sells NEW O1M trans. for about 2700,00. that price is factoring in shipping and a $300 refundable core charge. These are rough prices as I am away from my computer.

I believe, if you buy the new transmission, and do regular maintenance ( fluid and filter change) about every 40,000 miles, your transmission shift last a lot longer than our original trans. I got about 9 GOOD years out of Cup's tranny, before it's decline. The past four consisted of slipped shifting, jerking into gears and finally the transmission siezing in traffic.

VW's stupidity, made bogus claims, stating that the transmission fluid was lifetime. I wish we could do a class action lawsuit, at least give us as a substantial discount on replacing our transmissions... for my beetle is currently out of commission, and sitting in my driveway due to the O1M failing. VW tried to make good, by doing a recall on some of the newer models; but that does not help people like me, who own a 2000 New Beetle, or even those with the 2006- 2010 with high mileage, for this takes us out of the recall parameters.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
VW's stupidity, made bogus claims, stating that the transmission fluid was lifetime. I wish we could do a class action lawsuit, at least give us as a substantial discount on replacing our transmissions... for my beetle is currently out of commission, and sitting in my driveway due to the O1M failing. VW tried to make good, by doing a recall on some of the newer models; but that does not help people like me, who own a 2000 New Beetle, or even those with the 2006- 2010 with high mileage, for this takes us out of the recall parameters.[/url][/color]
Depending on the view of the world the fluid can and is lifetime, it lasts exactly the lifetime of the transmission!!

That being said, changing trans fluid every 40-60k miles is a SMART thing to do on any car or truck unless you are towing or operating under other severe duty and the fluid should be changed every 25k miles.

As far as VW recalling anything with transmissions, this is FAR from the case. Recalls are only issued for safety related issues and are usually mandated by NHTSA.

What VW did do was extend the warranty covered up to 7 years/100k miles on some models and years of the New Beetle for some automatic transmission.

The problem is VW really did nothing to actually correct the problem with the premature valve body bore wear. This was caused by an aluminum valve body block (most earlier valve bodies were cast iron) that prematurely wore out due to hard anodized spool valves in the valve body.

Many re-manufactures ream the valve body bores and install oversized spool valves. This increases the surface area the spool valve operates over and I also believe there are other changes to the spool valves that may reduce premature wear inside the valve body bores?

Unfortunately fluid changes would have no major impact on the valve body bore wear, so all of these transmissions were just ticking time bombs based upon the driving conditions.

Some valve bodies went by 50k miles, some much later depending on how much city driving was involved and how busy the valve bodies were at shifting. The more shifts, the shorter the valve body life.
 

·
Super Moderator
Cup- 2k New Beetle GLS/ 'Chino- 13 Beetle 2.5
Joined
·
20,855 Posts
Depending on the view of the world the fluid can and is lifetime, it lasts exactly the lifetime of the transmission!!

That being said, changing trans fluid every 40-60k miles is a SMART thing to do on any car or truck unless you are towing or operating under other severe duty and the fluid should be changed every 25k miles.

As far as VW recalling anything with transmissions, this is FAR from the case. Recalls are only issued for safety related issues and are usually mandated by NHTSA.

What VW did do was extend the warranty covered up to 7 years/100k miles on some models and years of the New Beetle for some automatic transmission.

The problem is VW really did nothing to actually correct the problem with the premature valve body bore wear. This was caused by an aluminum valve body block (most earlier valve bodies were cast iron) that prematurely wore out due to hard anodized spool valves in the valve body.

Many re-manufactures ream the valve body bores and install oversized spool valves. This increases the surface area the spool valve operates over and I also believe there are other changes to the spool valves that may reduce premature wear inside the valve body bores?

Unfortunately fluid changes would have no major impact on the valve body bore wear, so all of these transmissions were just ticking time bombs based upon the driving conditions.

Some valve bodies went by 50k miles, some much later depending on how much city driving was involved and how busy the valve bodies were at shifting. The more shifts, the shorter the valve body life.
You're preaching to the choir buddy:). Except on the nature of the valve body failure; didn't know that the "ticking" was primarily created by the actual valve body- interesting factoid you've presented. I'm sure not changing the fluid shortened the ticking time bomb's fuse:eek:

Yeah, I was daring to dream on the recall issue. The stinker of it all is that the extended warranty was long gone with my 2000 1.8t O1M. So i'm stuck like Chuck:pinch:

I'm currently scrounging parts for a 5-speed swap. Hoping to have the swap done by the end of June.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
The valve body in my 2003 1.8t 6 speep Tipronic started to go bad around 60k miles. I purchased the car new and live in the Washington, DC area and my wife used the car as a daily driver for the entire time. Shift, shift, shift, shift. In the first mile from leaving my house, the trans probably makes 15 shifts. Stop and go traffic is a killer for the valve body.

By 70k miles the valve body had to come out as the downshifting was WAY harsh 4-3 & 3-2. Upshifting was also delayed and erratic.

VW made matters worse to some extent as there were a number of software updates released to attempt to address the valve body mechanical problems. So this delayed and partially covered up some of the issues and pushed many transmission outside of the extended warranty coverage.

The issue is there was no software solution for a mechanical problem within these transmissions.

Fluid changing would not really change the valve body wear issue much.
So I pulled my valve body and 70k miles, inspected debris and metal in the trans pan, the magnets had very minor and fine steel on them, but minimal and what I would expect the mileage I opened up the pan. So I decided it was worth a valve body rebuild, sent mine out for service and about 8k miles later it is still working fine.

Higher mileage automatics may not be worth putting money into the valve body, but I figured if I could get another 30-40k miles out of the trans/car it would be worth the money spent.
 

·
Super Moderator
Cup- 2k New Beetle GLS/ 'Chino- 13 Beetle 2.5
Joined
·
20,855 Posts
Glad you caught the issue in time and you're able to get 30-40k out of it. How much for the rebuild if I might ask? Dud you get the bigger bore done in the rebuild?

In my case, 166,000+ miles it's just not worth rebuilding the valve body. And after the sound of quarters in a dryer, then coming to a dead stop in traffic....yeah, I'm going with a 5-speed:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
I did a DIY on the valve body.

MY valve body was reworked, I found a place that would rework my valve body, I knew mine was not too bad off.

Cost me just under $700 with the VB rework, shipping & fluid and filter.

Solenoids were rebuilt & cleaned and valve bores were over sized where needed.

The good news was the trans pan was very clean and the trans was fairly low mileage so I decided it was worth the investment and hopefully I can get at least 2+ years more of service life out of the transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
what kind of places do that kind of mod to the valve body to get it to last longer?

Im going to go ahead and assume VW has no clue/doesnt give a sh*t about making them last longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
These guys seem high priced and may be a bit more performance focused?

I used a trans shop in CA that I found actually listed on ebay.

Contacted the shop and actually spoke with the owner and liked his approach and answers.

They did a quick turn around, had a well packaged return, used an engraver to make all their work for warranty purposes and even were helpful with follow up questions.

Pacific Coast Transmissions is who I used.

Home Page

There are likely others out there if you search. There are some re-builders that only cater to trans repair shops as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
yeah, they may seem a little high, but compared to some of the quotes i was getting, the price to get the valve body out...to them and back was a good $500 less expensive than just "fixing" it with a new flawed one put in. Also, it seems to me the mod they described is a pretty good fix for the design flaw in that VB. To be honest I was really looking for the first reputable place that had some kind of fix for this issue. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
To be honest most of the valve bodies last close to 70k miles before they get too worn, doubt you will get much more than 150k out of the trans as a whole, so if you replaced the valve body with the exact same one that came with the car, it would likely get you to 150k miles.

Removing the valve body was actually pretty easy, keeping track of the wires is the hardest part.

I had the valve body out in about 1.5 hours and this was me taking my time and having to figure out how to disconnect the solenoid connectors without breaking anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
All I am saying is it is not clear how long these transmissions will last overall. First things first, I think we all need to forget about the "Lifetime" fluid idea as this will only shorten the life of the transmission of the fluid is not changed. As for the valve body wear, this likely would not have been influenced by fluid changes, this appears to be more of a material and design issue than an maintenance issue. But this being said, I would recommend, 50-70k mile fluid change intervals, unless the then engine is overheated and then I would recommend a fluid change when the engine is overheated as many times the trans fluid temperature is increased due to engine coolant temps going up and/or the trans cooler not getting enough coolant flowing past the trans cooler section.

The valve body life cycle seems to be a function of the total number of shifts and possibly the area of the country you live in and outside temperatures.

My valve body was done by 70k miles, but I live in the Washington, DC area and within the first mile if leaving my house the transmission has likely shifted 20+ times. My wife used the car for her daily driver for 5 years before the valve body went, but she was commuting downtown 5 days a week. Stop and go traffic, shift, shift, shift......

The transmission likely shifted over 1000 times each day she drove the car to work. A wild guess is the transmission likely shifted over 250k+ times in the 5 years she drove the car on a daily basis.

If the car is driven mainly highway miles, I would expect that the valve body does not make as many shifts and you would likely get more miles out of the trans before problems show up??

Short of sleeving the valve body with stainless steel sleeves, you are likely going to continue to have valve body wear, even on the reworked valve bodies where the spool valve bores are reamed oversize. I do not know enough about the replacement spool valves to understand if they wear the valve body bores less. I assume that maybe the shape and material of the oversized spool valves may be a bit easier on the the valve body bores?

I kind of view the world this way, my orignal valve body lasted my about 70k miles. Likely my reworked valve body will last about the same amount (hopefully longer), with the additional transmission wear and tear on the clutch discs. So I look at it from an economic gamble, do I put $700+ into my current transmission, do I sell the car at a loss, or do I just continue to drive the car as is.

Driving the car with the bad valve body is really not an option, so this leaves either repair the valve body or sell the car.

I figured if I could get 2-3 more good years out of the transmission for $700 it is likely worth it to me. I would prefer to get over 200k miles out of the repaired transmission, but realistically the car is already 10 years old, the valve body design was not great to begin with and what happens when my reworked valve body goes bad, is the transmission/car still worth keeping in on the road? Can a reworked valve body be reworked and reamed oversize a 2nd time?

Not sure the answers to many of these questions, but I do not want to give people the idea that once the valve body is repaired, they will never have any more transmission issues. The automatic transmission/transaxle is clearly the most single complicated assembly in any car or truck these days.

Lots of moving parts, electrical connections and components, software and many seals and gaskets. Just way too many areas for problems and failures and we should all be lucky enough that we get the life out of these transmissions that we do.

So I tend to be a bit more glass half empty kind of person when it comes to making statements and setting expectation on things I cannot control. I do not want to give anyone a false sense of what to expect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I see.

Well I went the route of replacing the valve body, and the wiring harness since I have heard/read that can cause issues just like the valve body, I went through Automatic Specialties, INC in VA Beach. They got me a remaned valve body with the mods aimed at fixing the design issues with this VB, I also bought an upgraded set of wires. I'll try to post here periodically to update how everything is doing. It is scheduled to get fixed tomorrow.

Just as sort of an update of the car...

-over its life it had a close to 50/50 mix of city and highway driving and had the trans oil changed at 90k

-the valve body went at 103,9xx...so we'll see how it goes

-and screw vw's lifetime oil crap i'll put it on a service interval
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Try to get pitures of the magnets and the pan once it is pulled off. This will give you an idea of what kind of wear and tear the trans has encountered to date.

Let us know what you get charged for the R & R, I would hope no more than 4 hours. Its actually not too difficult.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
thanks for the advice, but as much as i'd like to be doing the work im no mechanic or technician. Its at the shop i mentioned earlier in the thread and they said the amount of metal on the magnet looked to be a normal amount of wear, so sorry no pictures.

they also said the fluid looked nice and clean, so im just having them top the fluid off.

i did decide to have them replace the filter though, they said when you drop the pan its supposed to stay attached to the VB, but when the dropped the pan the filter fell out, so i figure $20ish for a new filter was worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Not sure I am following what is going on, did you just get a fluid change or are you replacing the valve body?

At least on the 6 speed Tiptronic the filter actually is held on by 3 bolts, not sure about your trans.

If you are only changing the fluid and this does not improve things, I would say it is valve body overhaul time.

The problem is most shops give you the song and dance that you need the entire transmission overhauled at 100k+ miles, which is not a bad idea, but not always necessary depending on how many miles you want to get out of the car.

Few shops will just do what you want them to do, they want to run your bill up as high as they can and clean your wallet out with one visit. They will give you all the "no guarantee", which is BS, they cannot guarantee the rest of the trans, however, I have a 2 year guarantee on my valve body repair from the shop that I sent my valve body to.

They can guarantee their valve body work, if a clutch pack fails, it will not damage the valve body!

Anyway good luck, but not convinced your fluid/filter change will solve much based upon the past history of these transmissions.

If you are swapping out the valve body, you will likely have a big improvement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
yes, I replaced the valve body with a remaned one, with mods mentioned in earlier posts, and an upgraded wiring harness.

as im told the filter on this trans is held in place by a seal made between part of the filter case and a gromnet(probably spelled that wrong) on the transmission, probably not the best way to secure the filter but as vw has shown they dont exactly build these things to be perfect....but then again no one does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Great, sounds like you are heading in the proper direction.

Yea, was not sure how the filter on the 4 speed was held on, there are differences across the models, I only know my 6 speed Tiptronic that I have been into. But I have been into MANY American car transmissions.

When all is said and done, please post the VB source and cost and what the shop charged you so other members will have an idea as what to expect from a decent shop that does not want to perform a $4k+ full overhaul.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top