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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking for assistance on troubleshooting my 2000 Beetle 2.0 AEG.

Here is the sequence of events:

Car was on empty, so I went to fill up car. There were no issues before filling up with gas.

After leaving the gas station the car had no power when you stepped on the accelator petal. I was able to get up to speed very slowly.

The car starting running worse and worse, had to keep giving the car gas to stay running.

Car stalled on side of the road.

Car was unable to start again. The starter is turning very fast, like there is no compression in the engine.

I inspected the timing belt and it is not broken. I can turn the lower belt drive pully with a 18mm socket and the belt turns.

When I engage the starter, the timing belt does not turn but the drive belt does turn.

I have also removed and bench tested the starter and evrything checks out.

I also manually moved the lower drive belt pully and the flywheel is turning.

After further inspection, the timing belt is very looses, it would not be hard at all to remove it by hand with loosing the tensoner pulley.


Here is my questions, has anybody seen this before, where the drive belt pulleys will turn when the timing will not?

Thanks in advanced for any help.

Aaron

2000 VW New Beetle, 2.0L AEG 115,000 miles
 

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When I engage the starter, the timing belt does not turn but the drive belt does turn.That my friend is not a good sign.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START IT ANYMORE UNTIL SOME BASIC TROUBLESHOOTING IS DONESorry to shout but trying to start it is causeing more damage to the head.

You are going to have to remove the timing belt covers and inspect the whole timing belt and tensioner. The plastic one at the top as well as the metal ones bolted on. You will have to remove the lower drive pulley remove he bottom cover.

The drive belt will turn as it is connected to the crank and turns when the crank turns.

I am thinking stripped teeth on the belt and a messed up head

Serach for timing belt chang here in the threads and you should find a dyi with pictures to show you what it looks like
 

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I also believe that somehow something locked up Like perhaps the tensioner or the water pump and made the timing belt jump a few teeth which is just as bad as having a broken timing belt.
How many miles on the engine and how long ago was the last timing belt service and water pump replacement done?
 

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Gents, I am trying to help Aaron (the OP) get his Beetle fixed, but I fear I may have done more harm than good while troubleshooting yesterday (we turned the motor over many times...) So I want to get it right today (may be too little too late).

My belief is that the timing belt did in fact "jump". The belt is very loose and it seems likely (to me) that the tensioner or water pump failed/seized. I would like to verify three things today: 1) the belt did jump, 2) wp/tensioner failed, and 3) there is/isn't damage to the valvetrain.

My basic plan is:
- Remove belt and check for damage
- Check wp and tensioner for damage
- Check timing marks on cam pulley and flywheel (?) for alignment and realign
- Replace belt, tensioner, and wp (initially for testing may only replace bad parts, although all parts will ultimately be replaced)
- Perform compression test on all cylinders

I am assuming that a compression check will tell us if any valves are bent, yes? Please let me know if this approach is sound. Thanks for your help.

Rick
<><
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the input, I guess I will be removing a timing belt today and replacing a water pump.

I will provide an update once it is completed.

Also thanks Rick for providing the additional information.

Aaron
 

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I'd start with checking your timing marks.
 

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Gents, I am trying to help Aaron (the OP) get his Beetle fixed, but I fear I may have done more harm than good while troubleshooting yesterday (we turned the motor over many times...) So I want to get it right today (may be too little too late).

My belief is that the timing belt did in fact "jump". The belt is very loose and it seems likely (to me) that the tensioner or water pump failed/seized. I would like to verify three things today: 1) the belt did jump, 2) wp/tensioner failed, and 3) there is/isn't damage to the valvetrain.

My basic plan is:
- Remove belt and check for damage
- Check wp and tensioner for damage
- Check timing marks on cam pulley and flywheel (?) for alignment and realign
- Replace belt, tensioner, and wp (initially for testing may only replace bad parts, although all parts will ultimately be replaced)
- Perform compression test on all cylinders

I am assuming that a compression check will tell us if any valves are bent, yes? Please let me know if this approach is sound. Thanks for your help.

Rick
<><
If the belt has jumped which it most likely has since it is loose which it shouldn't be. Then you will have have major Valvetrain damage. The VW engine is an interference engine which means that when the timing belt breaks or jumps even by a just a few teeth the pistons and valves collide hard! By trying to turn it over and over again you probably did make it worse but either way that head has to come off and the valves have to be replaced. The pistons may also be scuffed and damaged but most of the time they don't need to be replaced.
I wouldn't even bother performing a timing belt service on this engine until the head has been fixed. It's just a waste of time and money at this stage and you will just have to do it over again after the head has been fixed.

A lot of people let this very important maintenance item slide way too long. Replacing the timing belt, waterpump and tensioner is one of the single most important thing that needs to be performed on a VW with a timing belt every 80k miles or 6 years whichever comes first.

I bet his car had over 100k miles and the timing belt was never replaced. It's pay a little now or a whole lot later.
 

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The 2.0 does sometimes get away with minimal or no damage. The ABA 2.0s of the mk3 era were actually non-interference I believe. The 2.0 usually isn't as bad of damage compared to the 1.8T so you may get lucky. But check your timing marks to start since its quick and easy. But definitely don't assume that the engine is fine. I'd err on the side of caution.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well Rick and I got everything apart and this is what we found:




So we spent the rest of the day getting the head to removed.

Thanks for the tips and I will keep everybody updated.


Aaron
 

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I see a lot of stripped teeth on that belt. Not good. If that's the original belt, I'm surprised it even made it this long. Its 10k over any sort of interval listed, and even those intervals are way too long. It should be 60-80k max. And every 5-6 years.
 

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I see a lot of stripped teeth on that belt. Not good. If that's the original belt, I'm surprised it even made it this long. Its 10k over any sort of interval listed, and even those intervals are way too long. It should be 60-80k max. And every 5-6 years.
I told him I thought it might still be good...:) Seriously though, what Aaron didn't tell you is that we didn't bother doing a compression check because some idiot (me) snapped a wooden dowel off in cylinder #1 (DOH!) while trying to find TDC. Barring a miracle, it likely would have been a waste of time anyway.

BTW, anybody have any experience with Odessa Cylinder Heads? They say they'll send us a remanufactured 2.0L cylinder head for $300 with free shipping.
 

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Sorry your troubleshooting confirmed my fears. I looked at odessa cylinder heads when I was looking at fixing a turbo with a busted timing belt. Seemed legit to me.

While you have the head off you can set the timing on the emgine and be ready for the head install I will attach the transmission timing marks, If you pull the air box and hose they are easier to see. They are on top of the transmission

Also since its apart replace the water pump,timing belt tensioner and the drve belt and tensioner. That way all of the wear parts on the front of the engine are good to go for another 80k
Edit_2012-11-24_1.JPG
 

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Sorry your troubleshooting confirmed my fears. I looked at odessa cylinder heads when I was looking at fixing a turbo with a busted timing belt. Seemed legit to me.

While you have the head off you can set the timing on the emgine and be ready for the head install I will attach the transmission timing marks, If you pull the air box and hose they are easier to see. They are on top of the transmission

Also since its apart replace the water pump,timing belt tensioner and the drve belt and tensioner. That way all of the wear parts on the front of the engine are good to go for another 80k
Thanks for the input and the illustrations. We will be replacing all those parts and probably a few more that we (meaning me) break along the way.:)
 
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