[TexasPancakes]

Greetings,

My 2001 Volkswagen New Beetle 4 cyl, 2.0 L, Automatic 4-spd has a broken speedometer. I tried plugging the OBD into my laptop while I drove around and I am getting the correct speed showing up on my laptop through the OBD port. On my instrument cluster, the needle will sometimes raise to about 10MPH during vehicle acceleration before snapping back to 0.

I removed the instrument cluster just to get an idea of how it works and when I try moving the needle with my finger I can feel its lack of smoothness. Some folks were saying it's probably the Speed Sensor, but if my OBD is showing the correct speed wouldn't that suggest that the error would be found in between the Speed Sensor and the needle's position?

Anyhow, I would prefer to repair the issue myself than to spend the money sending it in. I heard that as far as instrument clusters are concerned there's no repairing them, only replacing. What do you folks think?

Regards,
J. R. Luscomb

 

[billymade]

There are quite a few places that repair them; if you had yours repaired, you would not have to go through the matching process for the immobilizer that is required when you put in a different cluster. We have discussed; the immo and adaptation issues here:

http://newbeetle.org/forums/questions-issues-concerns-problems-new-beetle/76649-immobilizer-defeat.html

Repairing it yourself: from what I have researched, no one seems to sell the "stepper motors" that control the gauges, these commonly fail on GM vehicles and you can get these online (easily fix it yourself)... seems for VWs they are not available. Now, I would assume anything is repairable; if it is a soldering/board issue or on board parts/components need replacing (like a stepper motor, capacitors etc.), I don't know where you could source these or if these repair shops cannibalize old parts to create a working unit etc..

If you have VCDS; you can go into the output tests and confirm whether or not it is the cluster or sensors. The tests make each gauge sweep the full radius that they work in; if they don't work, the assumption would be the cluster is faulty. If they work fine; I would think it is problems with sensors or wiring issues.

Here is a video that shows the output test process; each item in the cluster will be activated, that way you can tell they are working properly.

Instrument Cluster Output Test - YouTube

This guy is doing something else with a conversion but it does show him checking the gauges on a NB cluster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c4SRoVdojU

Have you scanned the car for trouble codes; any show up? What are they? Is the odometer working as it should? A generic scanner might show some codes for failed parts like a speed sensor but for in depth testing, output tests and a self diagnostic of the cluster itself, you would most likely need vcds or something like vagtacho.

There are quite a few clusters on ebay and through junk yard parts search engines; I don't think you would have a problem finding one, it would be just finding the correct one for you car and then getting the adapting procedures done.

Here are some places I have heard of doing repairs:

BBA Reman, pixelfix, and many more:

https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+speedo+cluster+repair&oq=vw+speedo+cluster+repair&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.7376j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Jetta97 on TDICLUB: this guy is really responsive and nice to deal with; you might email him with questions and see what he thinks.

Anyone need help,here I am(Dallas-Plano ,TX - TDIClub Forums

 

[cha2ga]

The tach on my TDI cluster went out. I bought a cluster from a org member parting out a gasser. I knew I could swap the clusters because if immobilizer. I was hoping to cannibalize parts. I suspected the stepper motor was bad and it was. I replaced it and all works well now! As a bonus, I kept that cluster in case I need more parts at a later time.
JETTA97 at tdiclub was a big help. If I need to do any cluster work, he will get my business.


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[billymade]

cha2ga, can you give us more info about how you did the swap? Was it hard and did it require some soldering work or what steps did you take to do the repair? This would be a great DIY; if that would be something you could share with us. The speedo cluster issue; is something that is going to be more and more of a issue, as time goes on! Any info appreciated!

 

[cha2ga]

I will try to make a diy in the coming days. It was not hard, but there is one tricky part. Anyone can do this. No soldering necessary.


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[billymade]

That would be great; I am looking forward to your thread! Thanks!

 

[loosegravel]

Speedometer issue

texaspancakes, try checking your odometer against the mile markers on the freeway. If your speedometer is doing what mine was, the odometer will still be accurate even when the speedometer is not working. This would tell you that the problem is definitely in the gauge cluster, your speed sensor and wiring up to the gauge cluster would then be fine. Also check the cruise control operation if equiped. This feature would not work if the signal from your speed sensor was bad. As discussed, the stepper motors on the gauge cluster are fairly easy to change. Is your tach or fuel gauge doing strange stuff too? If so, then I would get the immobilizer defeat done on your ECU by Ian @ Reflect Tuning and start looking for a good used gauge cluster. From my recent experience, please be sure to get a gauge cluster from the same VIN series and same configuation of vehicle. As in same engine and transmission. Good luck! You will need it.

 

[PRM502STREET]

Hey Texaspancakes! Welcome to New Beetle dot org. Yesterday I was driving through the LO ranch over here outside of Dripping Springs, and ran over some Texas Road cakes! Them cattle have been eating like crazy since all that cold weather blew in. But its not cold anymore where I'm at, it was almost 80 again today!

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[TexasPancakes]

It looks like at this point I'll be buying a used cluster and just swap out the stepper motors. Only issue is when I took it apart it looks like on the 2001 NB you have to actually snap the speedo needle off the shaft to remove the motor and then reattach using glue or some such. Thanks so much for suggesting using a used cluster for its parts!

 

[billymade]

Did you see; this cluster diy take apart video on youtube?

Shown: is a 2008 but they seem essentially similar:

take apart:
2008 Beetle: Dissect Instrument Cluster - YouTube

put back together:
2008 Beetle: Re-assemble Instrument Cluster - YouTube

The needles; seem to "push off" to the side; not "pull off" as it were... and I am not aware, they need to be glued back on. I don't know; if this was the case on the 2008 and not the 2001? I PM'd cha2ga; hopefully, he can give us more info, on the stepper motor swap process.

 

[cha2ga]

Ok guys. I really apologize for not having the diy up, but I really havn't had time.
Here is a quick synopsis:

• 
  1. disconnect battery.
  2. remove cluster
  3. open front of cluster on workbench
  4. remove silver caps from needles by carefully lifting one side and then sliding them off over the needle.
  5. without rotating needle at all, pull needle off shaft.
  6. remove cluster backplate.
  7. stepper motors are not soldered onto cluster. They are simply pushed on. pay attention to the rubber spacers.
  8. use stepper motor from spare cluster and insert onto the pins, make sure to reuse the rubber spacers.
  9. IMPORTANT PART: barely push the needle onto the shaft as follows: a) FUEL: between 3/4 and Full b)RPM: (tdi- 4500 RPM) (gasser - 6000 RPM).
  10. IMPORTANT PART: gently rotate the needle counterclockwise until you feel it stop. this should happen at the empty fuel, 0mph, 0rpm. If you don't feel it don't worry. This is very delicate and many people can't "feel" it. Just remember, start at the higher position with the needle barely on (almost falling off)and then rotate CCW to where the needle should be with the car off.
  11. Push the needle the rest of the way onto the shaft but there should be a gap between the back of the needle and the cluster face.
  12. Install the silver caps.
  13. Install backplate.
  14. Install faceplate.
  15. Install cluster.
  16. Reconnect battery.
  17. Enjoy your repair!

 

[billymade]

Thank you so much for this; these are the types of posts that really make this site valuable and helpful to its members! Thanks again!


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[billymade]

NOTE: I emailed the Savi Elettronica company, to confirm these are the right parts: I will update, after they tell me if they are or not:

After doing a little digging; it looks like the stepper motors for our speedo clusters are available, as new replacement parts. The original OEM company; that makes the New Beetle speedo cluster is Magnetti Marelli.

Homepage | Magneti Marelli

From what I can tell: there are two different types:

1. odomter/rpm
2. fuel

If you search online; a number of companies sell the steppers, using the second part number:

This is for the odometer/rpm

Manufacturer Part Number:
B-0410 016 5130

Interchange Part Number:
AW-MOT-005


I'm seeing these for sale online on ebay and some sites, overseas.

Apparently; they are used in a number of other brands; seemingly mostly found in Europe:

Replacement stepper motors - Magnetti Marelli

• FIAT Punto / Bravo / Brava /Marea / Scudo / Ulysse

• LANCIA Lybra / Zeta

• AUDI A3 / A4 / A6 Jaeger

• AUDI TT

• VOLKSWAGEN Beetle

• RENAULT Clio / Kangoo / Megane / Scenic / Laguna

• CITROËN Berlingo / C5 /Evasion

• MOTO DUCATI Monster

Another option: seems to replace the "cap/cover" on the stepper, repairing it; having never taken on apart, I don't know what breaks but this is offered as a replacement as well, at a much reduced price.

search: Pointer motor repair cover (cap) for Magneti Matelli and Jeager dashboards

Cover for Magneti
Marelli and Jaeger
dashboards
This cover can be adapted to repair
speed / RPM pointers’ stepper
motor of MAGNETI MARELLI* and
JAEGER dashboards. The main
problem comes from PEUGEOT 206
dashboards.

This Italian company; offers many parts for dash/speedo cluster; makes me wonder if they are a oem for MM?

MiniTools by
Savi Elettronica srl
Contrada Popoleto, 14B - 70011 Alberobello (BA) - Italy
Phone +39.080.4324023 / +39.080.2221223
Fax +39.080.4327154 / +39.080.2221224
[email protected]

http://www.mte.net/

Look at page #58 in their catalog:

http://www.mte.net/sites/default/files/minitools-en.pdf

Here are the parts; they offer and their part #'s:

BELOW: Replacement (COVER ONLY) for stepper motors (ODOMETER/TACH):

PART #: SEPCOV2

BELOW: Replacement stepper motors (ODOMETER/TACH)

PART #: SEI-MOT01

BELOW: Replacement stepper motors (FUEL GAUGE):

PART #: SEI-MOT02

Stepper motor
for Magneti
Marelli
and Jaeger
dashboards
Adaptable stepper motor to fuel
and water temperature pointers
on MAGNETI MARELLI and
JAEGER dashboards. It can be
used to replace the broken ones
in the following car and motorbike
models:
• FIAT Punto / Bravo / Brava /
Marea / Scudo / Ulysse
• LANCIA Lybra / Zeta
• AUDI A3 / A4 / A6 Jaeger
• AUDI TT
• VOLKSWAGEN Beetle
• RENAULT Clio / Kangoo /
Megane / Scenic / Laguna
• CITROËN Berlingo / C5 /
Evasion
• MOTO DUCATI Monster

 

[TexasPancakes]

Ended up buying the stepper motor off eBay for $30. Someone had told me that I wouldn't be able to find it online and would have to buy the whole cluster so I abandoned my search immediately. Anyhow, it's working great now.

 

[billymade]

TexasPancakes: tell us more about your repair and how hard it was. and which parts were replaced. Which part # and particular stepper (rpm, odometer, gas, etc.); did you buy (new, used), was it aftermarket parts or have a brand name on the part (Bosch, VDO, Magneti Marelli etc.)? Who was the vendor; that sold you the part on ebay, that way people will know a known good vendor for this stepper repair. Any info would be appreciated; to keep this thread as a resource and relevant speedo specific info, would be great, for those attempting the repair in the future! Thanks!

 

[TexasPancakes]

Here's the link to the motor I bought: Citroen C5 Audi TT VW Seat VDO Beelte Instrument Cluster Stepper Motor Gauge | eBay After removing the cluster just pull the needle and it will separate from the motor's shaft. After that it's just plugging in the new one and aligning the needle.

 

[billymade]

Great, thanks for the info; in the picture on ebay, I can see some part #'s but can't quite make out who makes the stepper; does/did your old/new one, have any info imprinted on it? I just looked at the ad and they are listing it as USED! This sounds; like a reasonably priced repair, although... I am sure a bunch of other things could be wrong with peoples speedos (not just the steppers) I guess; I need to contact the above vendor from Italy and see if they sell them new; whether or not they have a dealer in the USA (I would like to use new parts). Thanks again for the info!

 

[TexasPancakes]

Yeah I think I would have to disassemble my cluster again to get a part number but I do believe most of the information concerning the motor can be found on that eBay webpage. I also tried copy pasting the listing's title into the German eBay and results did appear for that motor in brand new condition; I just didn't want to pay for international shipping rates.

 

[MWhiteDesigns]

Ok guys. I really apologize for not having the diy up, but I really havn't had time.
Here is a quick synopsis:

• 
  
  10. IMPORTANT PART: gently rotate the needle counterclockwise until you feel it stop. this should happen at the empty fuel, 0mph, 0rpm. If you don't feel it don't worry. This is very delicate and many people can't "feel" it. Just remember, start at the higher position with the needle barely on (almost falling off)and then rotate CCW to where the needle should be with the car off.

• 
  
  Cha2Ga i have a question you may or may not be able to assist with. I have a cluster, the needles sit below where they should. i.e. The MPH needle sits about 5 mph under the 0, the Tach needle sits about 600 rpms lower than it should. The MPH difference does not change depending on speed, the difference is constant.
  
  How can I reset where the needles stop at their resting position?
  Would doing the above help fix this issue? or do you have any ideas on what is wrong?

 

[billymade]

Do you have access to be VCDS? Have you tried to run the output tests for the speedo cluster; that will tell you if the gauges are working correctly and when they sweep in the full degrees of the stepper motor, that will give you a sense of if there's a mechanical problem with the gauges. There is also, a self test diagnostic feature that could give you a idea if there is a problem as well. Look at the linked videos; to get an idea of what i am talking about. Many of the speedo sites that do repairs mention problems similar to what you are saying: so, it could be that on board components on the internal board are failing.... That is why doing the output tests would be a helpful diagnostic troubleshooting step. If the gates do a full.sweep; I would think more the on board components would be the issue but failing steppers could be a possibility. Another thing; does it look like anyone took the speedo apart before??


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