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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so before you go "WHAT?" .... read this guy's report: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone:Dave_Narby

Now, read a 2005 VW Jetta GLI report: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone:MarkCooper

Lastly, this page, PESWiki, has more links and resources: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive

So.. in my reasearch, I found another discussion (http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lmower/msg100237122760.html) where someone said they use acetone to clean aluminum masks at work (apparently these masks get covered in an adhesive) and the masks are corodded, presumed from the acetone. They are running a test of straight acetone-aluminum for a week or so to see if it's the acetone or the acetone-adhesive mix that's causing the corosion.

So.. this brings me to here. I have a gas car, from what I've read of a few BMW and the Dodge guy is that it causes the rubber gaskets to swell, not erode. It cleans the engine and cleans the spark plugs. It builds up in the tank, so it's an every-other-fill up, give or take filling habits and mixture ratio, but it *seems* to be safe.

I can't tell just HOW LONG folks have been doing this, and oddly they cite it works in diesel (including biodiesel) and gas engines.

It sounds too good to be true.

Now, before I go throwing an ounce of acetone into my bug's tank.. I wanted some dubber input. Does this sound crazy? Can you give a good arguement on how it's GOING to HURT the engine? I really want to hear real-world or plausible negatives to this ... the obvious are seal errosion or combustion chamber corossion from the acetone, but also keep in mind we're talking a 1oz/tank (14 gallons bone dry) mix, and most folks run 1-3oz per 10 gallons of fuel, noting that smaller engines do better with less than more. Also Ethanol mixed (e10 product) gives worse milage with acetone than without acetone.

What do you guys think? Searching the *new* forums didn't reveal any acetone threads, I'm checking the old ones now.

Peace!
 

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Wow, 12 views and no biters. I'm surprised (or everyone is doing their homework before writing back).

I've decided I'm going to try this. I asked a coworker, who is a chemist (cause I work at NIH), and he told me (quote from email):

"The only negative I see is that you would increase the "solvent power" of the fuel slightly. Some deposits of stuff-resins, or whatever- might be dissolved and deposited on the fuel injector jets. OR it could clean out the jets nicely! I can't imagine much bad at the concentrations you state. Acetone will react with both Al and Mg at elevated temperatures, but then so does ethanol."

So, as he has put it... the amount of acetone (1oz/10 gal) isn't going to do any more damage to the engine, in theory, than ethanol (E10 product) will do. 90% of cars have aluminum engines these days, so if gas companies are using E10 in fuel (at least in CA and NC) and the cars are taking it, I don't see how this can hurt.

I'm going to post my results as I obtain them. I very well may, around 120k (I'm at 70k now), remove my headers and see if things look good or bad inside the car.

Call me myth busters (or crazy, or both)! :D
 

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The NC Cat
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kcfoxie said:
...What do you guys think? Searching the *new* forums didn't reveal any acetone threads, I'm checking the old ones now.

Peace!
Quite honestly it sounds scary. I do not know if I would be able to do it, but it seems worth some research so I'm going to look around to see if soeone knows something about it.

Also .. where do you buy acetone ?
 

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Reading (just barely) they say it reduces the surface tension and makes the gas, .. well makes more gas explodable (to get to the point).

Hey KC, you have a vag-com, right? Log some timing and fueling, and some of the adjustment values before and after. It should be an obvious change right there, since the same amount of fuel will now do something different than it used to. The engine should try to adapt to the "new fuel". Probably by way of the O2 sensors.(? guessing)
 

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Neko - I know it sound scary! But I'm sure the first greasecar was just as scary (and I see a LOT of them around)... it's all in the name of science! (Let me be your guinea pig!)

Nor - hehe yeah, I AM Crazy like a Fox! I JUST ordered my VAGCOM, and it'll be here early next week. I've got a good 300 miles before I am on empty, and I want to ensure I have an E10-free tank before I do this, as well as getting rough math MPG estimates before and after. I'll be sure to log my results with the VAGCOM tools as well, this should help to prove or diffuse the myths.

Thanks for the insight :)

Nor - I may need some schooling since I've never used a vag-com before, but I'm not the only one (I have an audi, 98 beetle and a 01 jetta tdi.. to name a few) who can't wait to get it and see what it can do! Is it true you can set the auto door locks, number of beeps when the alarm arms, etc with the vag-com, or is it engine diagnosis only?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
neko said:
http://www.rightnation.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t87165.html

Many comments of improvments and few sckeptical I'm just inf the first 1/2 of the discussion.
Wow, yeah.. that forum makes it sound bad. However, after speaking with one scientist and a VW mechanic.. they both say try it out. It appears to vary to make and model of every car, so who knows. It might work.

Also Acetone can be purchased at walmart or home depot. I'll verify that as I've got to go vacuum shopping tonight, and will look at wally world for a bottle. I'm holding off till I do the VAG-COM tests, regular milage tests, etc before putting it in. Check back soon for my results!
 

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It's true. I don't know most of that stuff, I don't have many dubs around me, but we're tryin' to band together. Appearently I'm the vag-com of the group so I should be learning faster sooner. :p

I'll be happy to look around the vag forums with ya; I know vortex also has a vag-com forum... but I'm not sure what it's there for, I believe they just reference their instruction set, etc. But I haven't gotten anything positive out of it yet.
 

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noR said:
It's true. I don't know most of that stuff, I don't have many dubs around me, but we're tryin' to band together. Appearently I'm the vag-com of the group so I should be learning faster sooner. :p

I'll be happy to look around the vag forums with ya; I know vortex also has a vag-com forum... but I'm not sure what it's there for, I believe they just reference their instruction set, etc. But I haven't gotten anything positive out of it yet.
There is a guy here.. the 01 TDI Jetta owner.. who has done some research and was soo excited to meet me with mine in the mail. He even offered a notebook to use the software on (since I'm an all mac setup).. but I've got a state loaned out Dell (it pays to have a lover that works for the state) that I'm going to set it up on. He wants to disable the auto lock on his doors (I didn't ask why), and I want to video tape the alarm on my car beeping and flashing 10 times in a row.. just to show it CAN be done (again, crazy.. like a fox!). I am more and more interested in what the software can do, and if dumpster driving in the vortex is what it takes to learn it.. then i'm game!
 

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My only concern is that wouldn't the acetone damage part of the fuel filler neck, seeing how that's plastic...?

-Des
 

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Deserion said:
My only concern is that wouldn't the acetone damage part of the fuel filler neck, seeing how that's plastic...?

-Des
or any other plastic part ? is the fuel pump plastic ? I am 1/2 tempted of trying REALLY tempted of trying ... (especaiily because if it works I would do it on the wife SUV :)).
 

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neko said:
or any other plastic part ? is the fuel pump plastic ? I am 1/2 tempted of trying REALLY tempted of trying ... (especaiily because if it works I would do it on the wife SUV :)).
Again, in the first reference with the Dodge cars.. the guy soaked seals, injectors, etc.. in pure acetone for over a week with no negative side affects. As my chemist said, the dilouted edition's only downside is moving setiment into the injector or combustion chamber.

I'm going to talk to my friend with the 74 beetle today about running acetone in the car (once we get it running) and then taking it apart when the time comes for more engine work (4 months or so) and see how clean or damaged the inside is.

Once I get my VAGCOM, I'm going to do a spark plug test. I'm going to photograph my plugs as they are now.. then 3 tanks later, check them again... if 900 miles on acetone does as it says, I should see cleaner plugs.

I feel it is going to be safe, VW isn't stupid enough to put plastic INSIDE the engine, shy a gasket or seal, which has been shown to swell with any acetone mixture, over a period of time.

Now, what I'm secretly hoping for.. is Charlie's oil burning will go down with the acetone. Only time will tell.
 

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ok...1st off I am going to say that I am not an expert in motor vehicles, but on Halloween I am going to defend my dissertation and thus achieve a Ph.D. in poly/organic chemistry so there are a few things I know.

1) If you were to use acetone in your system the only thing it probably eat would be the rubber seals. Most of the hard plastics you will find along your fuel system are either polypropylene or high density polyethylene which are both quite inert to acetone

2)On the http://www.rightnation.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t87165.html
website that whole "surface energy" statement is BS...so much BS... if anything Acetone would make it worse being it is more polar that the mix of hydrocarbons you currently burn.

3)I am seriously surprised that knocking isn't an issue, as I would have suspected that acetone would be more prone to early combustion

4) Acetone will do absolutely nothing to aluminum...There is nothing corrosive about acetone to aluminum. The acetone you can buy in the store probably has a good bit of water in it, but water on aluminum as we all know shouldn't be a problem either.
 

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lcClemson said:
ok...1st off I am going to say that I am not an expert in motor vehicles, but on Halloween I am going to defend my dissertation and thus achieve a Ph.D. in poly/organic chemistry so there are a few things I know.

1) If you were to use acetone in your system the only thing it probably eat would be the rubber seals. Most of the hard plastics you will find along your fuel system are either polypropylene or high density polyethylene which are both quite inert to acetone

2)On the http://www.rightnation.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t87165.html
website that whole "surface energy" statement is BS...so much BS... if anything Acetone would make it worse being it is more polar that the mix of hydrocarbons you currently burn.

3)I am seriously surprised that knocking isn't an issue, as I would have suspected that acetone would be more prone to early combustion

4) Acetone will do absolutely nothing to aluminum...There is nothing corrosive about acetone to aluminum. The acetone you can buy in the store probably has a good bit of water in it, but water on aluminum as we all know shouldn't be a problem either.
Again, more positive-ish news :) I'm holding out on it eating the rubber gaskets, cause they should be of a polypropylene-like resistance to a corrisive fuel additive. I mean, you can get an assortment of octane boosters and fuel injector/carburetor cleaners for $6.99 a bottle at any gas station ;)

Someone did say that their engine knocked [from peswiki], but it was an older something or another 4cyl. that also had ideling issues (wich the acetone corrected).

The VAGCOM should, I think, be the tale-tell of truth.

Just for factual documentation... Charlie got 26.9MPG on his last tank of mixed driving. That's with a suspected E10 base fuel. This tank is good ole BP, and hopefully will be ethanol-free. I'll see how he does with this gas, test with the VAGCOM... then try the acetone.
 

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180 Degrees out of faze
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Some considerations. Some injector cleaners available at AutoZone have acetone in them. Millions of people have used these cleaners.
By adding an ounce per 10 gallons is a whole lot cheaper than spending $3 to $4 per bottle for the commercial injector cleaner.
After adding the acetone to the tank, drive like you always do. Don't drive easer just to get the better mileage. After all you can slow down, and drive easy without adding anything.
 

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hannaco said:
Some considerations. Some injector cleaners available at AutoZone have acetone in them. Millions of people have used these cleaners.
By adding an ounce per 10 gallons is a whole lot cheaper than spending $3 to $4 per bottle for the commercial injector cleaner.
After adding the acetone to the tank, drive like you always do. Don't drive easer just to get the better mileage. After all you can slow down, and drive easy without adding anything.
I had no proof (I didn't check) that acetone might be an ingrediant to the "corrosive fuel additives" I mentioned in the post above yours. But thanks for informing me that some DO use it :)

I'm still waiting for Mr. VAGCOM to show up .... but I'm feeling confident about this test.
 

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Test considerations. One way to do a test is to take a drive over two day. First fill the tank. Take note of which pump was used. Get on the highway, and set the cruse control. Just drive for a hundred miles, turn around and come back. Fill up at the same pump. Next day do the exact same thing, but add the acetone. This should eliminate such things as tail winds in one direction vs the other. Then you can compare the differences if any.
Using the cruse control takes away the personal variables of driving.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
hannaco said:
Test considerations. One way to do a test is to take a drive over two day. First fill the tank. Take note of which pump was used. Get on the highway, and set the cruse control. Just drive for a hundred miles, turn around and come back. Fill up at the same pump. Next day do the exact same thing, but add the acetone. This should eliminate such things as tail winds in one direction vs the other. Then you can compare the differences if any.
Using the cruse control takes away the personal variables of driving.
That's a great test plan. *But I have no cruise control... hence needing better MPG*
 
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