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What is the melted wire in this picture? Where does it go?



Photo credit to this thread: http://newbeetle.org/forums/2-0-liter-gas/36185-ignition-switch-connector.html


Mine doesn't look nearly that bad... but it is turning brown. All the others look fine. Just trying to see if this could cause my slow cranking and/or be a result of my monsoon amp not shutting off, overheating, and draining the battery. I searched the bentley, and wiring diagram 97-61012 makes me think it is connected to fuse 37 or 42, both of which are radio fuses but I think fuse 37 is tied to the ignition switch somehow. I throw a code for S contact at starter switch when I have fuse 37 pulled. (I only noticed because I always pull both when I let the car sit or the battery drains..)
 

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It appears to be one of two solid red, same size. Right? I'll look at the Repair Manual and tell you, I was just in that circuit last night for someone.

You haven't fixed that drain issue yet? I'm sure I read that there were defective Monsoon amps in the '01s.

M.
 

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I think that would be for the load reduction relay. You need to replace the electrical part of the ignition switch, I think that is part number 4B0 905 849. If the terminal housing is melted, then it will need to be replaced as well, 8D0 971 975. And of course the burn wire will need to be cut and a replacement repair wire crimped into place.

When this happens, the wipers may not work. The failure tends to be the ignition switch itself.
 

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I'm assuming that is terminal 30 at the ignition switch. This wire feeds the load reduction relay as stated. The brake light switch, the Monsoon amp, serviced through S242, and the Coolant Fan Control Module, serviced through S16, are all serviced by this lead through bolted connection 501. Pencilneck has given you the resolve for the switch issue but you have to resolve the cause.

M.
 

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I've repaired this kind of problem several times, as best I can tell, it is the ignition switch itself.
Oh Randi has a problem with the Monsoon amp not being turned off as it should by the radio, it is thought, but I don't know if tested. This is being attributed to the battery not holding charge for the normal length of time and the fuse is being used as a switch to turn it off. The amp is on one of the circuits being served by this wire. Just saying.

M.
 

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This problem I've faced...twice:eek:

First time, the switch went out. Upon install, I did notice the insulation going out. I put some JB weld water weld around it- it has insulation properties.

Second time, switch crapped out... again. Notice further wear around the insulation. Replaced the switch, as well as the connector itself. I got one at the junkyard- got about 4" worth of wire beyond the connector.

This is an frequent problem amongst our beetles. What causes this, I don't know. One of my guesses is crappy insulation. Anyhoo, I'm good at the moment.

I believe I grabbed an extra connector while I was at the junkyard. Lemmie go in the garage and check. If I have one, it's yours for the extra low price of FREE.99:D

Going off to check.

I'm back.... I've got it! Shoot me your addy, and I'll mail it off to you in the morning.

It has about 2" of wire outside of the connector/plug. You should be able to get some in-line wire connectors, like this...

This is what I used. RadShack as well as most auto parts stores sells em.

Just let me know if you need it.
 

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Butt connectors are okay, but without the use of a crimping tool, yes, not a pair of vise grips, there is going to be considerable resistance in a high amp circuit (very little wire surface contact in the connector - trust me, do a voltage drop test). The same reason when you replace the wires in the battery fuse box, the #4s, you have them done, not a connector DIY. Lacking a crimping tool (I have one), I much prefer a wire of this guage, both stripped about an inch, overlapped that inch, and a well filled soldered connection, with heat shrink insulation. Much less resistance in the connection, which obviously is already a problem OR better, pull a completely new, quality wire from the switch to the bolted connection [501] on the relay panel. Then you have resolved the wire quality issue AND increased the wire gauge slightly going from 2.5 mm² to #10 AWG.

That however, doesn't solve the drain problem, as the fuse, being used as a switch, that solves the drain problem, is (same circuit, but upstream from the load reduction relay) downstream from the ignition switch. If that amp is bad, and drawing more than it should, that could be the cause of the heat at the ign switch, in this particular case.

The connector you offer is needed however, if for no other reason than to match, for a new wire.

M.
 

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Butt connectors are okay, but without the use of a crimping tool, yes, not a pair of vise grips, there is going to be considerable resistance in a high amp circuit (very little wire surface contact in the connector - trust me, do a voltage drop test). The same reason when you replace the wires in the battery fuse box, the #4s, you have them done, not a connector DIY. Lacking a crimping tool (I have one), I much prefer a wire of this guage, both stripped about an inch, overlapped that inch, and a well filled soldered connection, with heat shrink insulation. Much less resistance in the connection, which obviously is already a problem OR better, pull a completely new, quality wire from the switch to the bolted connection [501] on the relay panel. Then you have resolved the wire quality issue AND increased the wire gauge slightly going from 2.5 mm² to #10 AWG.

That however, doesn't solve the drain problem, as the fuse, being used as a switch, that solves the drain problem, is (same circuit, but upstream from the load reduction relay) downstream from the ignition switch. If that amp is bad, and drawing more than it should, that could be the cause of the heat at the ign switch, in this particular case.

The connector you offer is needed however, if for no other reason than to match, for a new wire.

M.

Working with electronics, I just posted, not thinking about Joe/Joan gringo, who doesn't do stuff like this all the time. Yes yes indeed you need a crimping too- that you can find at RadShack too:p

There, all bases covered.
 

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Working with electronics, I just posted, not thinking about Joe/Joan gringo, who doesn't do stuff like this all the time. Yes yes indeed you need a crimping too- that you can find at RadShack too:p

There, all bases covered.
You don't think a new wire is better? Even with the proper crimping tool. Like you said, wire quality problem. And a new switch, just for good measure.
 

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You don't think a new wire is better? Even with the proper crimping tool. Like you said, wire quality problem. And a new switch, just for good measure.
Oh yeah, much better and frankly, the way I would go.

For the life of me i'm amazed over VW's poor wire quality. I know Stephen/Evanrude had to get that entire harness replaced. At least with the new connector, Randi could get someone to rewire it with a top-quality insulated wire.

I think she might be fine with the switch, BUT I agree... I would get another switch as a spare. I have a spare myself and I would recommend others to get a spare, especially if you're doing a lot of out of town trips.

From my experience, there's more than one of the wires that lose their insulation. when this happens, the wires touch, thus frying the ig. switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Just so everyone knows, I did figure out the cause of all of this tonight.. it was the monsoon amp. The radio pulled a normal draw like .03 mA or something like that. The amp, however, pulled OVER AN AMP. It wasn't shutting off for whatever reason. Solution: Cut the speaker wires off one of the amp plugs and connected them to the appropriate wires on the other amp plug. Bam. No more monsoon. I'm pretty sure there is an amp bypass harness somewhere out there, but seeing as I will never put the $#@*&^! amp back in my car, and I am VERY tired of dealing with the issue, I just cut the wires off the plug. I mist say, the sound is now a little disappointing, but hey.. an excuse to finally redo my system :)


Now for the cleanup..

I am thinking it would still be a good idea to replace said toasty wire just for good measure. The ignition switch has already been replaced so no need to replace it again. Do I need to replace the whole wire or just the burnt portion? I solder and use heat shrink every day at work so if that is an option I can do it easily. I have no other present issues, so it seems I've caught it early enough for it to not affect anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This is an frequent problem amongst our beetles. What causes this, I don't know. One of my guesses is crappy insulation. Anyhoo, I'm good at the moment.


hahaha speaking of bad wire insulation... you should see my headlight wiring harness. :D The coating literally just falls off if you touch it, it is so burnt. I have to hit the passenger headlight to turn it on 75% of the time. People get a kick out of it at gas stations and such. A guy just the other day laughed and was like, "You really have to hit your headlight to turn it on?" My reply: "Yep. Gotta love German engineering." :rolleyes:
 

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You go girl!

From my experience, there's more than one of the wires that lose their insulation. when this happens, the wires touch, thus frying the ig. switch.
Yeah, but I don't think the wire has gotten THAT hot, or done that kind of damage, yet.
Just so everyone knows, I did figure out the cause of all of this tonight.. it was the monsoon amp. The radio pulled a normal draw like .03 mA or something like that. The amp, however, pulled OVER AN AMP. It wasn't shutting off for whatever reason. Solution: Cut the speaker wires off one of the amp plugs and connected them to the appropriate wires on the other amp plug. Bam. No more monsoon. I'm pretty sure there is an amp bypass harness somewhere out there, but seeing as I will never put the $#@*&^! amp back in my car, and I am VERY tired of dealing with the issue, I just cut the wires off the plug. I mist say, the sound is now a little disappointing, but hey.. an excuse to finally redo my system :)
You go girl!

Did you ever check your VIN against the recall list for the bad amps, that did just what yours was doing? Lots of part outs around, somebody must have a Tape HU that's of little value, and only to someone who already has the amp, so the amp also is of little value. Ask around the part outs.
Now for the cleanup..

I am thinking it would still be a good idea to replace said toasty wire just for good measure. The ignition switch has already been replaced so no need to replace it again. Do I need to replace the whole wire or just the burnt portion? I solder and use heat shrink every day at work so if that is an option I can do it easily. I have no other present issues, so it seems I've caught it early enough for it to not affect anything else.
I think I would replace the entire wire, with a #10. I think the wire quality is part of the problem and I don't think that 1A. was the cause of this, perhaps the switch you changed out. Was the wire like this then? And I think your good with the switch if it's fairly new. Certainly changing the end is easier, and if you take SY2K up on his offer you don't have to deal with finding a replacement connector. And I know I don't have to tell you, but if you solder a #10 wire splice, plenty of overlap and flaten the wires as best you can before tinning or soldering. More surface contact, less resistance.

M.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
so it is okay to cut off the whole connector and solder a new one on?
 

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You mean using SY2K's pig tail with the connector? Sure, if you have enough access to the existing to get about an inch of overlap. You should have about a one inch long solder joint when your done. Flatten the two round strands of wire as best you can before tinning, and then match them flat surface to flat surface. This gives you more contact between the two and less resistance. A soldered connection will always create slightly more resistance. You don't want them simply "stuck" together, you want to encase the whole joint in solder. You might get a spare piece of #10 wire and play with it a little and practice. But if you have access to the proper crimping tool, a crimped butt connector is as good, maybe better, just don't undersize the splice. And don't do it without a crimping tool. Both CAN be a little tricky, especially working in a confined space. That is one of the reasons I suggested replacing the wire totally, with new crimped connectors. It's not a long run from the ignition switch to the relay panel connection, and that one is a bolted connection, I would assume through an eye or ring connector.

M.
 
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I'm so glad I found this post! I'm having the same problem with my VW. Does anyone know where I can find the purple part of the ignition switch or do I have to buy the entire thing?
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I'm so glad I found this post! I'm having the same problem with my VW. Does anyone know where I can find the purple part of the ignition switch or do I have to buy the entire thing?
It might be better to look for one at a junk yard.. I don't have my Bentley handy to look it up (Morav, where are you? :) )

I'm not sure what you mean by "the entire thing".. The ignition switch itself is the white thing inside the metal thing you put the key into.. the purple thing plugs into it. (My terminology is super fancy, I know) if I haven't confused you, the connector (the purple thing) can be cut and a new one soldered in its place. But any kind of repair like that is only a band aid fix, you need to fix what caused the wires to fry in the first place or it will just keep happening. the wire that looked toasty was terminal 30, it feeds the load reduction relay. I seem to remember reading about an issue with the fog lights and several other accessories all getting power from this wire, thus frying it. In my case, the monsoon amp that wasn't shutting off was powered off a circuit stemming back to that wire, and I'm assuming that probably helped turn the wire brown. I'd do a search for it, maybe someone else could chime in and post a link. I am sleepy and can barely keep my eyes open.



edit: derp. The part number for the purple thing was already stated in the third post. I need to go to bed lol. The part number is 8D0971975. ECS Tuning.
 

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Ignition switch replacement issues

Guys i need some help here!!!

I have a 2001 TDI with relatively low mileage for the age (126000 km) The other day i completely lost my wipers, signals, horn, head/fog lamps, air, etc.... the next day they were back but it didn't take long before i had smoke streaming up from behind my steering wheel.
I ripped the dash off and using THIS tutorial was able to identify the issue. All the symptoms here were identical right down to the corrosion and partly melted connectors.



I chopped out the fried piece of harness and spliced in a larger gauge of wire (went from 14 to 12) crimped on a new connector and replaced my cooked ignition switch



Now everything went smoothly and all the missing functions were once again working.... UNTIL I CRANK THE ENGINE ON!!!!!
When the key is in AUX everything works fine. Once i actually start the engine im right back to having nothing. Any insight?
 

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It should be obvious, in reading through this thread, that there is more than damaged wire at issue here. Either something causes the load to exceed the capability of the wire or the wire is incapable of carrying the required load. While you have increased the wire size in the last inch or two, you have probably reduced the conductance through the butt connector, and in essence just moved the weak point, and unless you used the proper crimping tool for the connector, you have more than likely, considerably less conductance through the butt connector (if you did crimp the connection properly you have just moved the weak spot upstream of the butt connector or to the upstream side of the butt connector itself). You may have more conductance than you had with the damaged wire, but less than is needed. And the connection of the wire to the switch - how was that accomplished? The heat that damaged the wire, also more than likely damaged the connection in the switch.

As indicated by others who posted here, the switch is problematic to the NB, so it is fairly safe to assume, at least at this point, the switch is probably bad. As to the cause, it's a situation of which came first the chicken or the egg, inadequate wire size servicing the switch, or a failed switch causing the wire to overload. Cooking of the wire, as you have experienced, typically doesn't happen from a sudden overload, but rather a long term relationship. If your going to keep the car, I'd replace, first the switch, and if that resolves the problem, then the wire ALL the way back to it's source at the bolt connection on the load reduction relay.

M.
 
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