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Discussion Starter #1
I bought my daughter a 2003 Cyber Green Color Concept Beetle 1.8T (APR flashed!) and she absolutely LOVES IT!! Except when she parks it and the battery dies!

I have a Vag-Com, digital multi-meter and I'm pretty mechanically inclined, so let me state what I've found:

When we bought the car, it was completely factory stock with 65K miles. The dealer had to jump the car before we could take it for a test drive, I didn't think much of it. I bought the car and drove it home, the battery died a few more times, so, I had it replaced at Sam's (I was already there).The battery would periodically need a jump, so after about a year, (she wasn't driving at this point, just teaching her on weekends and getting it in tip-top running shape) I bought a new gel type battery from AutoZone. It was overkill for the car, but it fit in the hole and I figured it would solve the battery drain problem. It helped, but didn't solve the problem. The car would now need to be jumped about every other day if it wasn't driven as opposed to needing a jump if you let it set more than about 12 hours.

About 2 months ago, the alternator went out. Ah-HA! I had an alternator going bad and thats why I had the battery drain issues! WRONG!

So now, I'm serious about getting this thing fixed. She's starting college at the begining of August and this is the only issue I haven gotten resolved. I tested the batter and alternator with the multi meter, both are good. I hook up the meter between the positive battery terminal and the positive lead and set it to amps. Without the key in the ignition and wait for the car to sleep, it's showing to be drawing 1.7 amps. When I noticed the radio was on, I cut it off and the meter went to .02 amps (YEAH!! I think were getting somewhere). I performed the test several times and get the same results.

Looking on the forums this seems to be a known problem with the Monsoon amp staying on. Has anyone found a permanent solution? For now, I told her to cut the radio off every time she gets out of the car and were going to see if that works as a temporary solution until I can get on the forums and see if maybe there is a solenoid somewhere thats supposed to cut off the amp, but, as of yet I cant find any solutions. Any advice? Your help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Hate to say this, however, the solution may be ebay??

You can get the Monsoon Amps pretty cheap, around $50 used, close to $100 new.

You may or may not have problems with the replacement, however, if I had to guess the issue may be water or bad capacitors??

Maybe you can open up the original one and check for the corrosion or bad capacitors.

This may help?? Not sure it is 100% for the same as the Beetle??

http://crutchfield.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7671
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the reply's.

I'm not sure if that is the way the beetle is designed, or if it is an engineering over site by Volkswagen. If I replace the amp will the amp turn off when the car goes to sleep? I would gladly pay $50-$100 to solve the problem and put this issue to rest.

I saw the post about the guy that added a relay, just didnt want to cut into the factory harness and have potential problems down the road.
 

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I have not really researched the Monsoon Amp in great detail, but it appears it may Auto Turn On???:

Kind of like you friendly subwoofer for your home theater system??

I have not looked over the wiring diagram so not sure if there is something that ties into the comfort module and goes to sleep as well?

One other suggest, if you plan on shipping this car off with your daughter, suggest you spend the $42 for a VAG-405 on Amazon. Only down side it does not read real time engine data, however, it DOES read airbag, ABS and other modules in the car.

See the OBD info below in my signature.
 

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I had the parasitic draw on mine. But i had an aftermarket deck. I finally got fed up with it and eliminated the amp.....well unplugged it, chopped all the wires up and rewired it to bypass the amp. My car hasn't died since.

My amp also didnt work any more....not sure the problem. Hope you figure it out. :)

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the info, but im not out of the woods yet, so keep the replies coming please.

I have a Vag-Com (VCDS Authentic) and a Bentley manual that I bought because I feel that most of the dealerships in and around Houston and more interested in replacing parts and charging 'book hours' than trouble-shooting to find the root cause of the problem (I call this the shotgun approach, replace enough parts and eventually you'll fix the problem). This gets pretty expensive at ~$100 an hour, plus the inconvenience of dropping off the car during their hours and the cost of OEM new parts!

I havent looked through the Bentley manual in a while, mostly because I forgot I had it because most of the info in it I found to be useless. I does have extensive wiring diagrams which I'll look through tomorrow to see what I can find (again, sorry, I forgot I had the manual). I say I founf the info useless because it doesnt show you the info you need, like removing the passenger headlight assembly to get the alternator out or where the latches are to remove the headlight assembly.It also doesnt include part numbers which are handy for ordering direct replacements.

Its been a while since I've was into car audio installation, but if memory serves me correctly, head units usually come with a remote wire. The amp is wired direct to power, but only cuts on when the remote wire is hot...basically a solenoid is built into the amp. Im not sure if this is the case with the Monsoon amp or not, hopefully the 40lbs Bentley doorstop pays for itself.

A scan on the car using the Vag-Com shows no error codes, everything in the car works, so I dont think its a solenoid that controls multiple thing like the comfort or convenience package. I'm pretty good with a VOM, but not an electrician by trade and not good with electrical schematics. I'll do my best, but for the meantime, please keep the suggestions coming.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK, I've been doing some research. Here is a little bit of good info on the Monsoon Amp where the people on the forum are trying to install a 'Car-Puter' and have it run through the Monsoon amp and factory speakers. Here is a link to the full articleFAQ: Connecting your soundcard to a Volkswagen Monsoon Amp

Many Volkswagen owners have the Monsoon Sound System as a factory installed option. Part of this upgrade includes the "Monsoon Amp". It's a strange beast and differs in a few important ways from an aftermarket amp.

First, it is a "line level" amplifier. That means that it can take in an already amplified output from the headunit rather than a very low signal one such as the "line output" you find on many audio systems and computers. The monsoon amp then amplifies and splits this signal into different components such as bass, treble, midrange, and routes it to the proper speakers in your car. Trouble is, some of theses speakers differ in their resistance values. Removing the amp and replacing it with an aftermarket amplifier would requires enough knowledge to buy/build a proper crossover network.

Second, the monsoon doesn't have a "turn on" signal wire. Most amplifiers have a signal wire that is connected to the accessory or ignition wire of the car to sense when to turn the amplifier on and off. The monsoon does not. It has a special circuit that senses voltage on one of the speaker wires to tell it when to turn on or off.
Next, a pin-out for the amp that I found http://newbeetle.org/forums/1-8-liter-turbo/60287-battery-draining-overnight-02-turbo-s.html#post836574

And a pin-out for the back of the radio, which seems to be standard with all NB Monsoon single din radios

I found the wiring schematics in the Bentley manual, I'll try to scan and upload them later.

I found the coding for the radio using the VCDS (not the security code, the programming code) and it is 06033 which is for a dealer installed and coded factory head unit with built in CD player instead of the cassette player.

I'm wondering now if the amp has internally burned the on/off switching or if it is operating as designed. I'll have to wait until the kiddo come back over to do more testing.
 

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OK, I've been doing some research. Here is a little bit of good info on the Monsoon Amp where the people on the forum are trying to install a 'Car-Puter' and have it run through the Monsoon amp and factory speakers. Here is a link to the full articleFAQ: Connecting your soundcard to a Volkswagen Monsoon Amp



Next, a pin-out for the amp that I found http://newbeetle.org/forums/1-8-liter-turbo/60287-battery-draining-overnight-02-turbo-s.html#post836574

And a pin-out for the back of the radio, which seems to be standard with all NB Monsoon single din radios

I found the wiring schematics in the Bentley manual, I'll try to scan and upload them later.

I found the coding for the radio using the VCDS (not the security code, the programming code) and it is 06033 which is for a dealer installed and coded factory head unit with built in CD player instead of the cassette player.

I'm wondering now if the amp has internally burned the on/off switching or if it is operating as designed. I'll have to wait until the kiddo come back over to do more testing.
Oh boy, I wish I had that print out when I bypassed my amp. What a pain trying to figure out where all the wires went!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OP DELIVERS!! Still doing research to see the best plan of attack to verify if the issue is with the head unit or with the amp. I would like to get more info on the Dynaudio Amp 3C0-035-456-C to see if it would potentially be a replacement for the Monsoon 1C0-035-456A. It looks like an amp the VW put on the EOS and Jetta from 2005-2010 and has been discontinued. The plugs look similar, but the pin-outs look to be inverted on the connectors (see post #65 from Dynaudio amp swap for VW amp (POS) - Page 5 - TDIClub Forums. Here is the schematic as well as a better copy of the amplifier and head unit pin-outs.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
OK, I'm back. I got the car back from the kiddo and did some testing, but first a few helpful links.

The Bentley Service Manual I have covers 1998-2010 and Convertibles. It is ISBN-13: 978-0837616407 and can be found on Amazons website for $88.16 + Shipping (Volkswagen New Beetle Service Manual: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010: Including Convertible: Bentley Publishers: 9780837616407: Amazon.com: Books)

Here is a link to the parts list for VW Beetle 1999-2001. it's 2.7mb, I'd recommend saving a copy for future reference. (http://www.volkscity.com/files/vw-beetle-parts-list-99-2001.pdf) and a link for the parts list for VW Beetle 2002-2005. It's 15.7mb, and I'd recommend saving a copy of it as well. (http://www.volkscity.com/files/VW-beetle-parts-list-2002-2005.pdf )

Here are links to two different methods of checking current draw. This one using just a volt/ohm meter: ( How to Find and Stop Car Battery Drains – DIY Car Battery Drain - Popular Mechanics ), and this one, which I found on this site, which shows a different method but requires a quick trip to Radio Shack for a 1-ohm resistor: ( http://newbeetle.org/forums/questions-issues-concerns-problems-new-beetle/60356-how-test-parasitic-drain-new-beetle.html ). I tried both methods. They both work, however, I was concerned that when I removed the battery cable using the first method, that I may be resetting some of the computers in the Beetle and it may not be accurately reflecting the true problem (I tend to over-think stuff). Ultimately, both yielded the same result. Here is a Tech Bulletin from VW which I completely disregarded, but I figured I'd include it so that as much info as possible was included in one thread.

Long story short, I had a current draw of 1.575-1.715 amps and checked different scenarios...interior lights, radio and alarm on/off, no significant changes.

I started pulling fuses. The radio fuse, #42 located to the left of the steering wheel after you open the door, dropped the current draw to a more acceptable level of .025-.032 . Now, were getting somewhere!

Next, I tracked down where the amp was located. Its located between the drivers side tail light and the license plate, inside the trunk near the spare tire. Here is another link showing how to get to it. Its the 3rd post in this thread: ( http://newbeetle.org/forums/car-audio/19096-access-monsoon-amp.html ). A word of advise, use a box-cutter to cut off the back side of the rivets so you don't destroy the Load Sill Cover, the clips just rip right out and look like they can be re-used a couple of times. ~SPOILER ALERT!!!: Page 508-509 of the 2002-2005 parts list show another view of the Load Sill Corer and has part numbers for the rivets (N-038-550-1) and clips (6K0-867-838)need 4 of each.

Now, I disconnected both plugs on the amp, and tested again. Still good, the amp is staying on. I bought another amp off of Ebay for $50, swapped it out, same problem with about 1.7 amps draw. I disconnected the amp, and the kiddo is gone with the car again getting by with an iPhone and portable Bluetooth speaker for the time being.

In my search so far, it seems as though the amp cuts on/off when it senses current from the left negative speaker input. Some people say front left, some say rear left and some say Volkswagen changed the pin-out to the amp. Other threads, but not Beetle specific, say they used Dynaudio amp but "... both multi pin connectors coming from the cars chassis had to be twisted 180 degrees..." meaning they removed the wires from the plug and re-inserted the bottem row to the top and top to the bottom.

SMH...Still searching for the solution.

~Captn~
 

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If you are handy electrically you could add a relay to the power line to the amp and us a switched line to control the relay. I've heard of others doing that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thanks Red.

I'm decent with electricity, although I don't have formal training. I would like to fix the problem without butchering the wiring harness if possible, but have considered putting in a relay. The problem is, where would be the best place to put in the relay? I would like to mount it inside of the amp housing but not exactly sure how or where. In post number 8 of this thread, there is a link to a guy hooking up a car-puter to the amp and he has some good info. Just wondering if I could somehow hook up the 5v regulator (which he states needs to be on the + side instead of the - side or the amp wont turn off)or if I swapped the + and - terminals for each respective speaker. By swapping some but not all will throw the speakers out of phase and it will sound like $hit, not sure if that would be the case if I swapped all of the input leads, and possibly the outputs as well, or if it would fry the amp.

The one I bought off of ebay, the guy included the green and grey plugs with about a 4" pig-tail from the donor Beetle. I have a Factory Monsoon cassette deck in the garage that I pulled out when I installed a Factory Monsoon CD deck, I could go to the junk yard and cut me off some plugs and pig-tails for the radio side, but I'm not sure I could do a bench test because of the coding for the radio. EDIT: I don't need need to use the factory radio, just an audio source, power supply and use this ( http://www.mp3car.com/the-faq-emporium/63879-faq-connecting-your-soundcard-to-a-volkswagen-monsoon-amp.html ) to start bench testing. Does anyone know how to test watt output from the amp to determine if I'm getting an output to the speakers without actually hoking up tweets/mids/subs?

I may have to put a relay in some place else, I'm going to keep going over schematics in the Bentley manual in the mean time...unless someone else can point me to where someone else has done it successfully done it without too much intrusion into the factory harness.
 

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So here is my thought??

I may be dead wrong, but if the Monsoon Amp detects a signal to trigger it to on from the head unit, then is there a way to connect just the Monsoon power up and disconnect the head unit and see if the Monsoon unit shuts off?

Maybe, just maybe there is actually a problem with the head unit and it is sending some form of signal to trigger the Monsoon amp on? What usually fails in most electronics these days are capacitors, they are cheap and fairly easy to replace once you get the box open you need to get into.

Many audio amps have capacitors on their amp output to block DC Voltage from the amp going to the next amp or speaker. If the capacitor shorts, then what happens is you may get DC Voltage on the audio line feeding the Monsoon amp??

You may have also ended up with another bad Monsoon unit from ebay?

As for relay, I would just use a 30 Amp cube relay like they use for foglights and such, they are at all the parts stores and Radio Shack. Self contained relay that you can fuse drop in line with the power feed to the Monsoon amp and have some form of ignition trigger. Best to trigger from the radio head unit because you can turn the radio on with the car turned off.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
THANKS JFOJ! Looks like a lot of lurkers are reading my post, but not many people responding.

I may be dead wrong, but if the Monsoon Amp detects a signal to trigger it to on from the head unit, then is there a way to connect just the Monsoon power up and disconnect the head unit and see if the Monsoon unit shuts off?
Not really. The power and ground wires are in the same plug as the output-to-speaker wires. I was working on getting a EPSCO D-612T bench power supply (Epsco Incorporated) from Ebay, but the guy wouldn't work with me on the price (I work on other projects too, $150 was my max offer). It's probably possible, but since I don't have the car here, and I have an extra amp, I'd rather do it on a bench a little at a time after work (and try to learn a little along the way). The input plug to the amp has only + and - LF, LR, RF and RR (Grey plug), the output (Green plug), has (3X)+ and (3X)- power as well as + and - for tweets/mids/highs (front speakers) and full range (rear speakers)or ERS which they also call subs bepending on which document I'm looking at.

Maybe, just maybe there is actually a problem with the head unit and it is sending some form of signal to trigger the Monsoon amp on? What usually fails in most electronics these days are capacitors, they are cheap and fairly easy to replace once you get the box open you need to get into.
Well, It's had the problem since I bought the car. It had a factory Monsoon Cassette player HU in it (the kiddo thought she was supposed to slide her iPhone into the slot :eek:), so, I bought a factory Monsoon CD/MP3 HU off of Ebay (guy even loaned me the radio removal keys!). The CD/MP3 HU worked great, didn't even need a security code for it to cut on! Well, I took it to get the ECU flashed and the guy that (TRIED to)flash the APR Tune to the ECU (APR VW Beetle 1.8T - APR ECU Upgrade) burned up the CD/MP3 HU! He was a great guy, and paid for the dealer in Houston to install a brand new one in the car. The dealer broke the blue wire that goes from the plug in the back of the radio to the CD changer in the back of the car, then told me the CD changer doesn't work "because 2003 Beetles didn't come with that radio, and that's why the CD changer doesn't work". The guy on Ebay says he was an engineer for Delphi, and everything worked before with the Ebay radio purchase. Hell, he even loaned me a radio and the removal keys to check that the one that Volkswagen installed, that's when I saw the wire pulled out from the harness plug. None the less, I had the same problem with all 4 radios...battery drain! I took it to the other guy in Houston that does the ECU flash, it worked GREAT! Best investment on the car so far, plenty of power now!

Many audio amps have capacitors on their amp output to block DC Voltage from the amp going to the next amp or speaker. If the capacitor shorts, then what happens is you may get DC Voltage on the audio line feeding the Monsoon amp??
I opened up the amp, visually, no capacitors are bulging. I would need to buy one of these (- Blue ESR Assembly). This is all that I could find to allow me to test capacitors while still in the circuit. A visual check and none of the capacitors are bulging. I have a digital solder station, and a digital solder/de-solder station, but I'm not an electronics tech...still learning as a hobby (still want a digital O-Scope and bench power supply and LOTS more training!).

You may have also ended up with another bad Monsoon unit from ebay?
Maybe so. But, if they go bad so often, I'd like to know that another one that is good today wont have the same problem tomorrow. I think I'm going to have to come up with a reasonable hack for myself and the community.

As for relay, I would just use a 30 Amp cube relay like they use for foglights and such, they are at all the parts stores and Radio Shack. Self contained relay that you can fuse drop in line with the power feed to the Monsoon amp and have some form of ignition trigger. Best to trigger from the radio head unit because you can turn the radio on with the car turned off.
As a last ditch effort, I plan to do that. I'd rather not do that though, I've had to go through wiring harnesses before that someone else has butchered and its not easy looking for where they got their creative ideas from. I'd hate to think that I'm the guy that I'm cussing in the future! LOL!

Right now, I'm researching diodes and zener diodes...hoping I can find a way to dump the voltage back to ground safely, within the amp, without causing other problems. I'm feeling like I need to break out the repair hammer!!!:mad:
 

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Capt,

You have been busy.

Sorry you have not make progress both for yourself and the VW community. Solving the Monsoon amp draw would help a lot of folks here and on other forums. I believe I have read where a number of people have replaced their Amps and solved the problem?

I replace capacitors all the time, most in switching power supplies, and usually you can tell by the bulging, some even barely bulging. I also replace motor starting capacitors in HVAC systems as well. I also have a few capacitor testers as well, some as part of standard multi meters and 2 stand alone units.

I have a Peak ESR tester that I use a lot to pinpoint problem caps. It can work in circuit, but not always 100% correct, so sometimes you have to pull the caps to accurately test them.

Funny how the claim that the late model radio will not work with the CD changer, this is exactly my configuration. I also have all the OE Sirus gear I need to install if I can quit doing mechanical repairs!

You may want to check this post out if you have not seen it, my $8 Aux input for the unit!!

http://newbeetle.org/forums/car-audio/58487-7-90-aux-input-newer-head-unit.html#post815827

How the heck did a ECU flash burn up the radio??

Did the guy hook up the battery charger backwards?

Did they get 12 Volts on the buss line?

I hear you about wanting to know what the problem is, because it MAY come back and you do not want your daughter stuck somewhere because of a repeat dead battery. It would be really nice to solve this problem and have a solution for other folks, it would likely save everyone time and money and might be a proactive thing for owners to do as well.

Good luck, keep up the good work.

I am thinking it is just a matter of time before I am plagued with the problem!
 

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Hey, CaptnSlapNutz: with all this extensive testing/research, you performed; did you ever find the issue or a solution to this common problem? It has been awhile since the last post; I was curious, if got this issue resolved, finally! Thanks! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
No, I have had the amp disconnected and sitting on my workbench for a while now, I really need to get back on it. I started a new job and they have been keeping me on projects out of town and over seas for the last year mostly.

Here was my plan:

I bought a couple of 555 IC timers (555 timer IC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) from my local electronics store.

I havent looked at my notes in a while, but it seem like there is a big power wire (+) and a small power wire (+) in the inside of the amp coming from the plug.

The plan was to build a small breadboard for the timer IC with enough resistors to adjust the timing to about 20 minutes, then cut the power to the small (+) power wire and splice it into the breadboard (555 IC) if it doesnt get signal from one of the left rear radio input. This should be small enough to mount inside the amp.

Im not 100% sure that killing power to the small(+) wire will kill the amp. Also, I dont know if I need to add more components to the circuit to prevent things like over voltage/under voltage, something to clean the signal from the left speaker ect.
 
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