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Fortitvdine Vincimvs
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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2000 1.8 5 speed and am wanting more Go! than just a chip, so, has anyone installed the AWE tuning k04 turbo setup (the one with the chip, turbo, fuel injectors, etc) ? What kind of difference is there (power, fun factor) compared to stock? is AWE tuning any good? thanks in advance!
 

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2,646 Posts
AWE is a good tuner from everything I've ever read. I think if the price is fair a KO4 setup is a sweet upgrade on an APH, not worth it on a later AWV, but for an APH? Do it!!:thup:
 

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40 Posts
CTS Turbo

Give Clay at CTS turbo a call, almost finished the K04 install this weekend, but it got to hot for me.........for your APH a K04, hi flow manifold, and gasket kits are $1100 delivered. And it took a whole 3 days from placing the order, (I was expecting weeks) I have the APR tune but I think they are all pretty good......good luck
 

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no longer use this site
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1,594 Posts
my .02 is don't waste your money on a k04 that can only make 40ish more hp than a maxed out stock turbo. you'll want more power in no time.

clay @ cts or arnold @ pag parts can set you up with a real turbo package for only a few more $$ than a k04 kit.
 

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170 Posts
Yeah skip the K04... Not worth the $ for the performance gain...
 

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Keep It Real
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1,746 Posts
Be careful going with turbo's other than the K04 or E05 with an APH 1.8t, the 06A 906 032 C ECU in this vehicle is completely different from those in the later model Beetles, it is much more difficult to tune and there is no software out there that I have been able to find that is designed to work on this engine/ECU combo with a bigger than K04/E05 turbo setup.

I have spoken to a lot of tuners about this and they shy away, the tuner with the most experience tuning this car/ECU with success is GIAC, you may try and speak with them to see if they are willing to work with you on a bigger turbo custom tune project.

 

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Premium Member
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4,315 Posts
I too have an APH and have hit these walls a few times. There are a few key differences on our cars and all of those are hardware restrictions.

Three can be overcome very easily.

1) Injectors are the smallest of all 1.8T's. So if you want B I G power you will need to upgrade those.

2)Teeniest of all the K turbo family offered in a VW at least. Easy peasy there are hundreds to pick from.

3) Most restrictive (by a country mile) intake manifold. Again there are lots of good options to pick from.

4) Slower ECU with soldered chip set. This is the one that is mind numbingly difficult and expensive to get around since you can't even pick an off the shelf chip to run on 93 octane let alone pick one to run a big turbo, big injectors etc

My solutions were as follows.

1) Extrude hone the head, intake manifold and the turbo manifold. This took it to flowing better than even the giant intake manifolds from certain Audi models.

2) KO3S turbo to replace the stock turbo. I went this way instead of the K04 since the best program only puts down 1 bar of boost with either the K03 or K04 plus the turbo was virtually free at $50.

3) AMU injectors - never installed - see next post

4) GIAC K04 program. It ran a little tiny bit rich and my fuel economy suffered some but it made tons of torque.

I am now back to a K03 turbo and APR software as money is tight. I would like to eventually have them write a custom program so I can utilize the bigger injectors with an E05 turbo. It should do at least 260hp (up to 280hp) because at that stage it will essentially be an AMU with extrude honing (for better flow), big turbo back and a chip for more boost. I will still have to upgrade the SMIC to keep the heat soak at bay and a couple other niggling things but for $1500 more than I already have in the car I can really wake her up.

This is shy of a true stage 3 turbo kit but will provide me with enough power to run out the speedo with stock gearing while keeping well with in any mechanical limitations brought on by the drive-train. In theory it should not really noticeably effect reliability or drive-ability while greatly improving performance.

160mph is the top of what a New Beetle can achieve with stock gearing. Once you can reach that limit the question then becomes (for me) how quickly do I need to get there?

240hp - 280hp feels just about right to me (on the MK4 chassis). Unless or course I go AWD... but that's a daydream for another night.
 

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New to VDubs, not to cars
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280 Posts
I'm surprised no one has stepped in yet about FrankenTurbo.
Sitting on my tool box, I have a FrankenTurbo F4h-l that's rated for about 250-ish at the crank with the Uni Stage 2+ tune, and that's a safe tune so you don't pitch a rod out the block.

There's rumor that the kit has tickled 300HP.
(technically it's not a rumor)

For $1100 you get the high temp coated hybrid turbo, a coated high flow exhaust manifold, a new adjustable metal diverter valve and a custom silicone TIP.
 

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lurkin all day !
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249 Posts
Ya but FrenkenTurbo is in the same boat as RP Turbo. New companies no one really trusts (only because they are new). Its hard to get a good opinion on either.

Im in the middle of "possibly" having to swap my turbo (not diagnosed yet), and I plannned on doing a k04-001 swap and might go with the RP Turbo, still undecided on that. Im not looking for big gains but maybe a Turbo that can handle and produce slightly more than the k03s. Paired with a k04 chip and I personally think the gains are acceptable.

On the APR software it pumps out
242hp/268lb-ft on 91 octane gas
and the k03s
209hp/242lb-ft on 91 octane gas
So it is an upgrade over stock no matter how you look at it.

So because you may need it, is it worth it?
Yes.

BUT, would I run out and swap a perfectly good turbo for a k04-001?
No.

edit - Holy smokes i didnt realize how expensive that K04 kit was from AWE... Id say there are better kits you could buy for maybe less money. You should look around
 

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Same Name, New Parts
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443 Posts
what i never understood is why companys advertise something that cant deliver.

On the k04 software for the aph

I have contacted both awe-tuning and apr to see if they had software for my ecu (06A 906 032 E), which is a 1999 aph engine code, yet they still have it advertised on their websites that they have it for APH on apr site and 99-on on awe-tuning site

I regret not getting the apr stage 3 when it was available for our cars until now that eurodyne maestro came out, this changes everything and being able to convert to a wideband/harness ecu makes me want to get a big turbo upgrade again

I have looked at the frankenturbo looks promising but its still a small turbo and having to go through getting in a new manifold and all of that jazz, the price seems attractive but without a proper tune your just slapping on another k04 pretty much. You still need to upgrade injectors/maf along with other bolt ons to get it to the kind of power.

The k04 is a waste unless you blow your k03s or in our case baby k03 and want the car to just run again.

The RP ko4 turbos seem like a good price but I dont think i would go near one, although its a nice upgrade for the money for the bi-turbo audi guys that have to get 2 of them

Save your money and put it in an apt eliminator kit or pagparts t3 50trim and get eurodyne maestro where you can delete a lot of the stuff and tweak things as you add more stuff.

Heres my to do list for this winter

wideband conversion = engine harness/ecu/02 sensors 3-400 parts



pagparts 50trim kit 2250 comes with everything even a downpipe
injectors/maf/possibly run a mafless file 300
maestro 900
tyrolsport smic 789

this will make you more then enough power on fwd car then most people around here will need
 

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Keep It Real
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I have one that I may sell but it won't be cheap, it has a Neuspeed race chip in it that is not widely publicized.

It worked nicely with my old Eurospec Sport K04, it worked even better when I upgraded to Bosch 386cc injectors with a 3" MAF housing.
 

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Everett Street in May
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Great thread, adding it to my list.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
 

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2K2 Turbo S
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92 Posts
Low End Torque

As is, these cars - like my Turbo S - don't have much bottom end torque. It's a dog until I get upwards of 3K rpms, then it screams. I'd love to push it towards 250 / 300 hp but I am afraid of raising the power band even higher and risking more lag with a bigger tubo / fmic. I want a car that is more fun to drive under most driving conditions, not just when I push it to the limit.

Any thoughts on this? What has anyone with mods experienced here.
 

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Keep It Real
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This all consuming, timeless concern about lag related to larger turbo setups that runs rampant through many forums, it is largely due to inexperience and lack of knowledge on the subject.

With the exception of first gear, in most cases when using a large turbo setup, much of the lag experienced is due mainly to improper driving/shifting habits and sometimes incorrect gearing.

Like with a motorcycle, one must find the spool point of their particular turbo setup and adjust their shifting to this thereby maintaining a minimum consistant RPM through shifts, keeping the turbo with-in the power band, bye bye lag...

Having a nicely setup transmission greatly contributes to this process.

 

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5/23/10 <3
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11,095 Posts
You think these cars have lag? Try driving an old VW turbo diesel. That thing has 1.6L diesel with a whopping 68hp and a huge Garrett T3. Now, that's lag. :lol:
 

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2K2 Turbo S
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92 Posts
one must find the spool point of their particular turbo setup and adjust their shifting to this thereby maintaining a minimum consistant RPM through shifts, keeping the turbo with-in the power band, bye bye lag...

I understand this 100%. Currently that point is at or near 3000 RPMs. I consider this high. I'd rather it have more lower RPM power but that is not practical with such a small engine. I'd be disappointed if it went much higher.

My question relates to what I can get away with that won't force RPMs into orbit just to find the power.
 

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I understand this 100%. Currently that point is at or near 3000 RPMs. I consider this high. I'd rather it have more lower RPM power but that is not practical with such a small engine. I'd be disappointed if it went much higher.

My question relates to what I can get away with that won't force RPMs into orbit just to find the power.
Actually, I think the 1.8 engine has plenty of low end torque and pulls even harder in the midrange. I can take off like a bat out of hell if I want to and spin tires all day long but that wouldn't bring anything. It's better to take off a bit easy and then pull hard all the way up the powerband. If you didn't get a Tune yet you don't know what you are missing. Don't throw your money away on mods that may only bring very small returns. Do yourself a favor and get a Stage 1 tune with REVO or APR or Unitronics, etc. and then say your car doesn't have any low end torque ;)
 

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Keep It Real
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1,746 Posts
I understand this 100%. Currently that point is at or near 3000 RPMs. I consider this high. I'd rather it have more lower RPM power but that is not practical with such a small engine. I'd be disappointed if it went much higher.

My question relates to what I can get away with that won't force RPMs into orbit just to find the power.
If you have a stock turbo or even a K04, your full spool point should be reached at a much lower point than 3000RPM, these turbos work strongest at lower RPM ranges.

You must remember that unlike an N/A engine, a 1.8t has a flat torque curve, this means that the engine does not need to reach a particular RPM in order to start producing real horse power & torque, it's power is achieved at the almost off idle point and continues all the way to about 4800RPM + or so.
 
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