Cam chain Tensioner
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Do, you have VCDS? You can do a output test and confirm, if the chain is stretched or I think, if the sensor, indicates if the tensioner is failing or malfunctioning. Let us know, if you have a VW type scan tool; like VCDS and we can discuss, how to do the testing/output test procedure. Thanks.
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Hey, you would be looking into the measuring blocks:
For the 1.8T; one would need to see, which ones show the right info:
Looking online; one website, discusses the readings and what you would typically see, depending on the milage and problems, you might be having.
Following info found somewhere on the russian net as official manuals say nothing for first and second stage of EA888 ...
How to diagnose a chain stretching?
Connect VCDS --->
go to Block - 1 (engine)
---> measured group
---> 93 group
---> Phase Position.
What is the angle of misalignment of shafts critical for us? 0 - 2 degrees - a value characteristic of the new machines, or machines with the new circuit; 2 - 4 degrees - the recommended chain replacement value at which you can hear a clear metallic ringing of the left side of the engine))) 4 - 6 degrees - Urgent replacement or dumb luck.
I haven't done this yet with VCDS on my 1.8T; check out the measuring blocks and any values, you see and hopefully, you can see if you need to replace the chain/tensioner. Let us know, what you find out and we can go from there. Thanks.
For the 1.8T; one would need to see, which ones show the right info:
Looking online; one website, discusses the readings and what you would typically see, depending on the milage and problems, you might be having.
Following info found somewhere on the russian net as official manuals say nothing for first and second stage of EA888 ...
How to diagnose a chain stretching?
Connect VCDS --->
go to Block - 1 (engine)
---> measured group
---> 93 group
---> Phase Position.
What is the angle of misalignment of shafts critical for us? 0 - 2 degrees - a value characteristic of the new machines, or machines with the new circuit; 2 - 4 degrees - the recommended chain replacement value at which you can hear a clear metallic ringing of the left side of the engine))) 4 - 6 degrees - Urgent replacement or dumb luck.
I haven't done this yet with VCDS on my 1.8T; check out the measuring blocks and any values, you see and hopefully, you can see if you need to replace the chain/tensioner. Let us know, what you find out and we can go from there. Thanks.
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I'll try to hookup the vcds sometime over the holidays and see what I can figure out. As of now it's clear as mud. I'll see what I can figure out.
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Anybody that has done this job before on the 1.8t know what is a good kit to buy? not too expensive or cheap just kinda the middle of the line? Does the tensioner part number have to be specific to your engine # IE....AWV Or something like that?
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Here is an update to this post and what I found over the holidays in attempting to test the chain tensioner. I was not able to test using measuring block 93 but I got some results using basic settings and group 94. Here are a few pictures I took of the results. hope somebody who has done this can chime in and let me know if that is the corrects way to find out if the cam chain tensioner is loose or needing replacement asap. when I went to measuring blocks and type in 093 or 094 and click on GO the software did nothing and the numbers in the windows never changed. When I went to Basic setting and typed in 093 it also did nothing but when I went To basic setting and type in 094 then push down a brake pedal and push down on gas Pedal to the floorboard you can hear the engine ravs up to about 2000 rpms, then window 3 changes to "test on" for about 20-30 seconds, then window changes to "system ok" . According to the Bentley book, step 9 (diagnosis Camshaft timing check) 04/94 which are the steps that you use in the vagcom software.
Attachments
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So, it looks like you passed the "test"; I'm wondering, if there is a way, to read the actual degrees, as noted in other engines, like the VR6 noted above. I would think, there would be a test and then, degree correlation info, so you could know, what the actual chain/tensioner wear is?
The cheat I linked to: https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/090-098.html
Has some of the blocks with the test and then, some without it. I've noticed, when working with VCDS; sometimes, you research the blocks and then, you find other blocks, by going up or down, then I have found things that way. If I have some time, I could try; on my 02 Turbo S AWP 1.8T with the variable valve timing and see, what I find.
The cheat I linked to: https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/090-098.html
Has some of the blocks with the test and then, some without it. I've noticed, when working with VCDS; sometimes, you research the blocks and then, you find other blocks, by going up or down, then I have found things that way. If I have some time, I could try; on my 02 Turbo S AWP 1.8T with the variable valve timing and see, what I find.
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Can you discuss, the timing chain noise you are experiencing? It is good, that you "passed" the tensioner test; that you found but as noted, it doesn't really tell you about the actual "wear" and if you might need to replace it. I'm assuming, it could indicate it is working ok; then, it could be worn and in or out of wear limits, which is what we would want to know. Is it noisy all the time or just on startup?
Here is a service bulletin; that notes, noise on startup and that, according to VW is considered "normal".
Camshaft Adjuster/Chain Tensioner: Technical Service Bulletins
Engine - Rattling Noise On Start Up (Normal Condition)
Condition
Camshaft Chain Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s), Rattle or Knocking Noise
15 06 01 Oct. 24, 2006 2012988
Technical Background
The camshaft adjustment is hydraulically actuated and controlled by the engine oil pressure.
If the vehicle has been sitting, with the engine turned off for a period of time, the oil accumulation inside the camshaft adjusters partially bleeds off and
the oil flows back into the oil sump.
To ensure an efficient camshaft adjustment after an engine cold start, the oil pressure inside the camshaft adjusters must be built up as quickly as
possible.
During this time a slight rattle or knocking noise may be audible.
This noise is normal at engine start and will last until the oil pressure is fully reinstated.
Production Solution
No production change required.
Service
DO NOT replace the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) for the noise concern as described above.
Tip:
Replacing the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) will not eliminate this noise.
Warranty
Information only.
Required Parts and Tools
No Special Tools required.
No Special Parts required. Always see ETKA for the latest part(s) information.
Here is a service bulletin; that notes, noise on startup and that, according to VW is considered "normal".
Camshaft Adjuster/Chain Tensioner: Technical Service Bulletins
Engine - Rattling Noise On Start Up (Normal Condition)
Condition
Camshaft Chain Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s), Rattle or Knocking Noise
15 06 01 Oct. 24, 2006 2012988
Technical Background
The camshaft adjustment is hydraulically actuated and controlled by the engine oil pressure.
If the vehicle has been sitting, with the engine turned off for a period of time, the oil accumulation inside the camshaft adjusters partially bleeds off and
the oil flows back into the oil sump.
To ensure an efficient camshaft adjustment after an engine cold start, the oil pressure inside the camshaft adjusters must be built up as quickly as
possible.
During this time a slight rattle or knocking noise may be audible.
This noise is normal at engine start and will last until the oil pressure is fully reinstated.
Production Solution
No production change required.
Service
DO NOT replace the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) for the noise concern as described above.
Tip:
Replacing the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) will not eliminate this noise.
Warranty
Information only.
Required Parts and Tools
No Special Tools required.
No Special Parts required. Always see ETKA for the latest part(s) information.
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12,668 Posts
I worked on a 1.8T Jetta and the chain noise; was VERY loud. After pulling the valve cover; it was pretty apparent, the tensioner had failed and someone, actually WELDED it, in the "up" position and the chain buffers were heavily worn out. We replaced the tensioner; the noise, went away and it was much quieter. That was definitely, a weird one and the noise, was very loud, unmistakeable that something was wrong.
This thread, on VWVORTEX; discusses, a number of issues with noises and ticking, after warm up. They discuss common issues; chain stretch, worn buffers and the tensioner itself (bad chain stretch; can cause, the tensioner to be unable to compensate and hit the inside of the valve cover). So, you might be time for a new one?
forums.vwvortex.com
It would be nice, to know; the degrees of the timing (difference), then you could have a true spec and know of the actual wear. I'm still not sure; this data is access able on our engines or they don't offer this data, in VCDS. (I guess we need to mess around; see, if we can find it in other data blocks?).
As to the choice of new tensioner and chain; I am doing ahead on a 2001 Audi TT and the head needs replaced, because of bent valves, from a timing belt failure. We went with FCP EURO; as a parts supplier and went with the chain and tensioner they offered.
These may not be the same parts for your car but these were the brands offered (aside from genuine vw/audi):
SKU: IWI-50046857
Audi VW Timing Chain - Iwis 058109229B
This thread, on VWVORTEX; discusses, a number of issues with noises and ticking, after warm up. They discuss common issues; chain stretch, worn buffers and the tensioner itself (bad chain stretch; can cause, the tensioner to be unable to compensate and hit the inside of the valve cover). So, you might be time for a new one?
VWVortex.com - Bad Cam Chain Tensioner. How to tell for sure?
Ok some of you guys have been helping me out with determining to source of some metal and plastic shavings in my oil sump and pickup screen. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showpost.php?p=83177598 I just got the valve cover off today to see if the chain guides on my tensioner were damaged...
forums.vwvortex.com
It would be nice, to know; the degrees of the timing (difference), then you could have a true spec and know of the actual wear. I'm still not sure; this data is access able on our engines or they don't offer this data, in VCDS. (I guess we need to mess around; see, if we can find it in other data blocks?).
As to the choice of new tensioner and chain; I am doing ahead on a 2001 Audi TT and the head needs replaced, because of bent valves, from a timing belt failure. We went with FCP EURO; as a parts supplier and went with the chain and tensioner they offered.
These may not be the same parts for your car but these were the brands offered (aside from genuine vw/audi):
SKU: IWI-50046857
Audi VW Timing Chain - Iwis 058109229B
- SKU: IWI-50046857
- FCP Euro ID: 12474
- Made in Germany
- Quality: OE
Chain seems high oe quality and MADE IN GERMANY!
Audi VW Timing Chain Tensioner - Bapmic 058109088K
A4, A4 Quattro, Beetle, Golf, Jetta, Passat, TT, & more
Audi VW Timing Chain Tensioner - Bapmic 058109088K
Audi VW Timing Chain Tensioner - Bapmic 058109088Kwww.fcpeuro.com
- I looked at the tensioner; out of the box, the "BAPMIC" brand, indicates they are from Germany but I couldn't find any markings, on the tensioner itself, indicating where it is made and there are not grindings off, that would indicate a oem part and FCP, lists it as "aftermarket".
One, of the benefits; of FCP, is the fact, that they offer lifetime warranty on all their parts and so, if there is a failure, in the future, you only have to buy the part once! Hope this helps!
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Do you know how to start the test using Measuring blocks section? it wouldn't do anything for me and i couldn't find info in google either.
I guess i might not need to replace the Tensioner just yet it just seems weird that after 16 yrs the car still has the same tensioner and also the original tranny clutch, master/slave cyliner. 220+ k miles. Like i said before i can hear a slight ticking but not that loud so i guess it's normal. When I remove the valve cover to replace the gasket next month i'll inspect the top of that for signs of wear or the chain hitting up there.
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12,668 Posts
Based upon the 229k mileage and 16 years of daily use, age of the vehicle; i think it could definitely be time for replacement based upon wear/tear; it may have passed the test, be functional but be worn, making noise. Especially, the ticking ,as mentioned in the vw vortex thread and so you are not alone with this audible noise, on a worn, old tensioner.
Seeing how the failure of the chain or the tensioner, would cause a catastrophic failure and bend the valves in the head; requiring thousands to repair, it would make prudent, sense to me, to go ahead and replace it. This would be a preventative maintenance based repair and from an ample anecdotal evidence based reason, many others have documented online and this would help avoid the high cost of a damaged head, in a worst case, catastrophic failure scenario.
Seeing how the failure of the chain or the tensioner, would cause a catastrophic failure and bend the valves in the head; requiring thousands to repair, it would make prudent, sense to me, to go ahead and replace it. This would be a preventative maintenance based repair and from an ample anecdotal evidence based reason, many others have documented online and this would help avoid the high cost of a damaged head, in a worst case, catastrophic failure scenario.
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