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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

My car recently started about two weeks ago to crank over but not start. At first it was a little hesitant to finally fire, but would fire after a few seconds... This got gradually worse and worse until now it just sits there and cranks and sputters. I just replaced my camshaft and crankshaft sensors, but no fix to the problem. I was getting a code that was complaining of an incorrect correlation between the two sensors... I thought these may have been the issue, but I guess not. I have also ruled out the fuel pump because i can smell fuel and can hear it prime when I open the door. It also only did this when I was starting it up after is was cooled down... It started fine when hot.

I just recently checked my spark plugs... They're good. Maybe all four of my coils died at the same time?



This car has striked out enough times that I'm starting to regret going with a VW!:mad:
 

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I would start with a fresh scan and post ALL the trouble codes, you have.

My first thought; would be a dying fuel pump. This sounds very similar; to what happened to my New Beetle, when the fuel pump went out. In my case; when the engine was running the psi was up to factory spec BUT when you turned off the car, the psi would go to zero. The spec; is that it should hold pressure for 10 minutes and mine did not. The internal valve was stuck or failed; this is why, it was hard to start, as the initial pressure was not enough to start the engine. If I cycled the key a number of times (without turning over the engine); the fuel pressure, would be up enough to then allow the engine to start. As time went on; it became harder and harder to start, it probably eventually would not have started at all. In that case I tested the fuel pressure and found it to be low and I replaced the fuel pump, problem solved.

So, there are a number of different reasons for a no start condition but we need to start with checking the trouble codes, to see if that gives us any clues about what is wrong. After that: I would be checking for spark at the coil and then checking fuel delivery issues. To check for spark: remove the coil pack, spark plug; insert the plug in the removed coil pack, connect plug to coil pack and ground the plug on the engine somewhere. Have a assistant turn the engine over and see if there is any spark; at the electrode of the spark plug.

Get those freshly scanned codes (if there is any) and we can go from there. Thanks! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok. So my codes are:

17748/P1340/004928 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation

17840/P1432/005170 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112): Open Circuit (This is because I removed my SAI)


I have replaced my crankshaft and camshaft sensors...so I guess my timing belt slipped a tooth? The car idles great though, maybe the computer is messed up?:confused:

Today I removed my #1 Spark-plug and coil, and as I excepted, it was soaked in gasoline. I connected a ground wire to the spark-plug to ground the spark. I then had a helper turn over the car...it fired up immediately without hesitation. I put it all back together and tried again...some stumbling happened at first (but I figured it may have been the excess gas in the cylinders). But several hours later after letting it cool back down, I tried again...same problem, it cranked for a few seconds and slowly sputtered and stumbled up to idle speed.

...any ideas or help would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes. I should have mentioned that. I have spark. The #1 sparkplug zapped nicely when the engine cranked over.

The camshaft sensor is an off brand. But the crankhshaft sensor is a Bosch.

I haven't tested fuel pressure. I need to. The fuel pump hummes every time I open the door after like 5 - 10 min. I just think that if the fuel pump was going bad, it would have a hard time starting when hot as well, since it only seems to do this when "cold".:confused:

I will also check compression and report back.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
... One thing I didn't mention before. I also cleaned up my negative battery terminal as well because it was covered in battery acid. I thought that maybe that would fix or at least change it a little... But I guess not.
 

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I still need to actually test them... But I I'm considering the possibility of bad coils...Since it only does the "No Start" when cold. Once it's warmed up...It starts just fine. Any thoughts? Coils only working when warm?:confused:
 

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We are guessing and speculating; too much here! You need to start doing some proper testing; to evaluate things and get hard cold facts, so you can do a process of elimination. Throwing parts at a problem and using the "shotgun" approach to troubleshooting, doesn't always work. For example; the codes for the two sensors, mention the possibility of the timing being off on the timing marks/belt. This needs to be checked and confirmed; that the marks are ok, in proper time.

I would clear the codes and see if anymore come up; you definitely, had a trouble code for a bad speed/crank sensor which is a classic cause of a no start issue but a failing fuel pump, is also.

If you have the part numbers and brands for the parts installed; we can double check and make sure they are the correct ones, for your car. The off brand sensor; has me worried a bit, stick with oem Bosch for all the sensors that were Bosch oem to begin with. :angel:

If the idea of no spark is still a issue; you might remove ALL the coils/spark plugs and see if ALL of them, have spark at the electrode, on the spark plugs. Checking each, one by one; as a helper turns over the engine.

WIthout testing specific things; following procedures in the factory service manual, you can just go around in circles and things can be frustrating and confusing. Ask me, how I know! :banghead: :eek:hnoes:

Start testing things; step by step and check your trouble codes, that might give you a clue, as to what the problem might be. Good luck and start a methodical troubleshooting process, that way you can start crossing off the potential problems, off your list and hopefully, you will find the culprit! :goodjob:
 

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Jerry
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Tonight I experienced nearly the same thing as OP, it was the first time the Turbo had ever done it to me, but it was a problem I knew how to deal with.

My Blue one has done this for years and I could never figure out why. My solution was always to pump the gas pedal and move along with my life. I had dealt with this for so long it made me forget all about our little friend the Secondary Air Injection System!
I never heard that air pump kick on in the old one, and I recall recently in the Turbo thinking is that the air pump and why is it so loud?

Sure enough, tonight when I went to start it, it was plenty cold and it SHOULD HAVE come on. I think I am dealing with a burnt AIR thingy in BOTH cars. This is simply my hypothesis for now, I thought I would chime in since I am experiencing the same trouble with not one but two bugs...
Again, just a theory-will check back in when I find something out with my cars that may help you head in the right direction.
 

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Jerry
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Correct, well after it fired up and turned only a few times and sputtered out, it was refusing to start again, but then I pumped the gas pedal and off I go
 

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Any trouble codes? Maybe test your fuel pressure and see if the fuel pump, is getting weak? How long has it been; since you did a tune up and maintenance? What is the overall tune of the car: e.g. fuel trims?


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Solution... Coolant Sensors?

I hooked up my Vagcom to the car. I found that while the car is "cold" the computer is reading 102 Celsius (215.6F) from the green 4prong coolant temp sensor near the block. I unplugged it and found that it read -45C while "cold". While it was unplugged, I cranked the car...it STARTED immediately!! :D

If the problem is indeed the sensor...it never showed an error code.

To test the sensor, my Chiltons guide only shows the resistance testing of a 1998 - 2000 sensor. Which is the 1st and 3rd prongs. But says to test the opposite prongs for the 2001+ sensors. Which is 2 and 4, but am unsure exactly on how to find the 2 and 4 prongs. If anybody knows exactly which prongs those are and could let me know...that would be great!;)

For the second two-prong sensor near the front and to the radiator, when I unplug that sensor, the Vagcom shown temp doesn't change. But it shows error code 16502. I also tested it's resistance and came up with nothing. Bad? (I tested it while the engine was cold and warm)
Does anybody know what the function of this second sensor is exactly?
16502/P0118/000280 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62): Signal too High
16502/P0118/000280 - Ross-Tech Wiki

I tried testing the fuel pressure... the gauge I found wasn't strong enough to read the pressure. So I'll have to find one that works...
 

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How are you hooking the fuel pressure gauge up; what do you mean, "it wasn't strong enough"? There is no schrader valve on the fuel rail (like most cars); just use a "t" connection/adapter and install it inline with a extra piece of hose. I even used a cheap $20 harbor freight kit with good enough results.


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Discussion Starter #15
I connected the fuel gauge with a T fitting to the lower hose connection on the fuel rail. When I connected it to the top one, nothing ever happened on the gauge. I assumed it was because of the FPR.

Here is the gauge I used. It moved clockwise from the big square 0 at the top to where it reads on the picture. It never moved when I started the car. So I assume the presser while running was too great as well.
 

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This "multi" vacuum/pressure gauge is a little confusing to read; would you say, it is reading on the outermost white gauge/numbers @ 97 to 100 psi?

As the description reads: Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62): is indeed the coolant temp sensor and what the computer, uses to adjust things for the engine. These are failure prone and when they are bad; cause hard start issues and a rich condition (causes all kinds of problems). You can read; all the symptoms in the ross tech wiki:

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16502/P0118/000280

Here is a video; explaining, how the temp sensor fails and how it operates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQ-2xp_TK4

replacement on a Jetta 2.0L; similar to the New Beetle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9B_dQz24r0

Check out the service manual; for location and testing procedures:

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/new_beetle_gls/l4-1.8l_turbo_(awv)/sensors_and_switches/sensors_and_switches_cooling_system/engine_coolant_temperature_sensor/switch/coolant_temperature_sensor/switch_(for_computer)/component_information/locations/

Be sure, to check the plug; for any electrical problems or damage. How has the temp idiot light; been acting lately?

Here are the coolant temp light; different modes and light meanings:

coolant temp light: modes:

Blue coolant light = engine cold
Flashing blue coolant light = fault in the coolant monitoring system
Flashing red coolant light = low on coolant
Steady red coolant light = engine overheating, pull over and stop engine IMMEDIATELY and do not run until the problem has been identified.
 

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I hooked up my Vagcom to the car. I found that while the car is "cold" the computer is reading 102 Celsius (215.6F) from the green 4prong coolant temp sensor near the block. I unplugged it and found that it read -45C while "cold". While it was unplugged, I cranked the car...it STARTED immediately!! :D

If the problem is indeed the sensor...it never showed an error code.

To test the sensor, my Chiltons guide only shows the resistance testing of a 1998 - 2000 sensor. Which is the 1st and 3rd prongs. But says to test the opposite prongs for the 2001+ sensors. Which is 2 and 4, but am unsure exactly on how to find the 2 and 4 prongs. If anybody knows exactly which prongs those are and could let me know...that would be great!;)

For the second two-prong sensor near the front and to the radiator, when I unplug that sensor, the Vagcom shown temp doesn't change. But it shows error code 16502. I also tested it's resistance and came up with nothing. Bad? (I tested it while the engine was cold and warm)
Does anybody know what the function of this second sensor is exactly?
16502/P0118/000280 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62): Signal too High
16502/P0118/000280 - Ross-Tech Wiki

I tried testing the fuel pressure... the gauge I found wasn't strong enough to read the pressure. So I'll have to find one that works...
This little coolant temperature sensor can cause long cranking times in the colder temps, the colder it gets outside the worse it gets.
I had no check engine light from this and it did not show up on Vagcom.
Cost was $12.00 and took less than a minute to install on my 2.0
Now my bug fires right up first crank .
This issue has plagued this car since I got it in March
 
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