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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey All,

So, I decided to send my daughter's NB to the local VW mechanic (not the dealership). DubSquared in Arlington, TX. We've been taking cars there for a few years and I think they are honest and pretty good wrenches. Anyway, I wanted them to diagnose the A/C system problem. Unfortunately, they found quite a bit wrong with the car. They are sending me detailed notes and photos from their inspection to help me figure out what to do. If I fixed everything that they identified, they would charge me about $3,000. The guy even said, after asking me how much I've put into the car since buying it two weeks ago, that he would wash it up and hang a "For Sale" sign on it. Man, that sux.

So, here's the laundry list of stuff I need to evaluate:

1) AC System - They removed all coolant and recharged. Said there was almost exactly the recommended level of refrigerant in the system, so no leaks. He said the compressor powers on, but there is no pressure on the system. His recommendation was an "A/C Shotgun" which includes replacement of the compressor, driet, expansion valves, and o-rings. $1,235

2) Intercooler needs to be replaced. Didn't talk long about this one. He said they did a smoke test and smoke came out the top of the intercooler. I don't really know what that means yet, but I assume it means there is a leak that can't be fixed. $537

3) There is a turbo boost leak. He didn't go too far down that rabbit hole but said that he suspects the turbo may be hurt some way. Not sure how or what that means. Oh, yeah, the turbo/engine sounds like a kazoo is blowing when the engine is working. I thought that was normal turbo noise, but I guess not. D'OH! Anyway, they say this is causing a CEL. Code is P1200.

4) They took a photo of a very badly worn timing belt. PO said they changed the timing belt 30K miles ago, but the timing belt really needs to be changed. $600 for that job and I just might pay that much to avoid having to do it myself!

5) Upper strut mounts bushings and control arm bushings are all worn and in various states of damage or disintegration.
$470

So... Here I am. Morally, I can't really sell the car without telling folks about the problem, which means I probably can't sell it or at least, I won't be able to recover what I have into it. Besides, my daughter loves the car. So, I'm thinking that I probably have to go all in on this thing and fix what I can to get it on the road and plan for some work in the next month or two.

What do y'all think? Am I kinda hosed on this? Do any of these jump out as obvious and not too complex fixes? I've done a couple of timing belts, and I really don't want to get into that mess. But, if I'm doing the other stuff, I might need to.

If I were to tackle these repairs, my priority list would go like this:

1) Timing belt/water pump/tensioners, etc.
2) Turbo boost leak - can't get the car past inspection until this issue is resolved as it apparently is causing a CEL
3) Intercooler replacement
4) Upper strut mounts, bushings, and control arms
5) A/C - no idea. Replace compressor and hope for the best?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA
 

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Not buying the AC story. Compressor needs to run in order to get an idea on refrigerant charge. Compressor may be bad, something else may be wrong.

Intercooler should not need to be replaced unless it is physically damaged??

For #3, check this thread - http://newbeetle.org/forums/1-8-lit...essure-drop-between-turbo-throttle-valve.html

Timing belt, unless you have documentation that shows it was changed, do not fool around with the timing belt, it will take the motor out if it fails. $600 does not seem like too bad of a price.

Upper strut mounts always LOOK much worse then they are. They are not that hard to do and probably not a super high priority. This is an afternoon DIY with loaner spring compressors from the local auto parts store, however, the struts probably should be replaced.
 

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Well, if we all had a professional shop; do ALL the repairs on our cars, it doesn't take long to get to 3k and cost more than many of our cars are worth! That being said; I would evaluate each "repair" situation; they mentioned and see, if there is a problem as the noted or not, then fix it yourself.

1. A/C system: I would get a better diagnosis. "replace everything", is a common statement from many shops and may not be needed. However, if the compressor needs replaced; replacing everything else in the system that gets contaminated is the right way to go.

2. Intercooler: You could pull this off and pressure test it for leaks; you could get a good used one at the junkyard for $50-$100 or maybe even less? There are many used parts right now in the classifieds section; from people parting out their cars. Removing and replacing this part is not hard; it is under your passenger inner fender protective cover, no biggie.

3. boost leak/turbo: P1200.

17608/P1200/004608 - Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249): Mechanical Malfunction

17608/P1200/004608 - Ross-Tech Wiki

A bad N249 valve; will kill the boost and make you think, that the turbo is bad. I would replace the valve; before getting a new turbo. The boost system; needs to be working correctly, for the turbocharger to function correctly and at full power. Worst case scenario; you could get a good used k03 turbo or have yours rebuilt for $350 or so.

http://gpopshop.com/services/rebuilding/

Here is the service manual info; for the Recirculating valve for turbocharger -N249:

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...component_information/testing_and_inspection/

4. Timing belt/waterpump; very doable yourself and you can save a ton of dough that way. Kits run from $150-$275 depending on which one you purchase (more or less parts; like vw coolant etc.).

Check out Audi Parts - Vw Parts - Audi Parts Vw Parts Kit Company - Blauparts® for excellent quality oem kit at affordable prices.

5. strut mounts: I would assume, quite a few things are probably needed on your front end; a front end refresh kit isn't too expensive and you could do that yourself.

Look online; for kits and prices:

https://www.google.com/search?q=VW+...rome..69i57.8207j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

In many ways; that things are need "repaired" are just typical things, that normally wear out over time on a Mark IV Volkswagen and need to be replaced. Much of this is easy parts swap/replacement work; which is "gravy" for them to do but everything is not beyond, your ability to do at home. This also; give you the added benefit of you learning more about your car in the process! :)

They seem a bit like chicken little; "the sky is falling" without giving you specific diagnoses and feeling, that it costs too much and it isn't cost effective to keep the car with that many things wrong with it. In a way; if everything they said is wrong; needs to be repaired or replaced and you paid them to do all the work, it would be but you don't have to, you can do it yourself (plus many things they say are "bad"; may not be at all: e.g. turbocharger, etc.

Think about the prices for the parts; in a worst case scenario, how long you want to keep the car and go from there. If you decide to tackle repairs yourself; we are here to help you and work through the problems, repairs, diagnostics processes. :)

Let us know; what you decide to do and we can go from there, thanks! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Repair diagnoses

Thanks for the info guys. I went and picked up the car and got a little more information. Turns out the boost pressure leak is the intercooler. There may be more, but the intercooler is leaking where the end caps are clamped on to the radiator part. They said it is just a failed part and they couldn't do more turbo diagnosis until the intercooler is replaced. However, they suspect the turbo is going out because of the kazoo noise coming from it. It is pretty loud... High pitched hum. I would like it to be the N249 valve. So, I'll replace the intercooler and that valve first.

I have an appointment to have the water pump and timing belt replaced at the shop next week. I just can't fit that into my schedule in the next two weeks or so. My daughter takes off for college right after graduation and I need to make sure the car is ready to go by then.

Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I move on these things!
 

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A/C system

If the a/c system had correct amount of Freon and the compressor kicks on and both electric fans are running but still the pressures in the low side and high side are not correct then most likely the compressor is shot/done. You would need to replace all major components like ; compressor, expansion valve, drier and a few o-ring fittings. Oil and Freon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If the a/c system had correct amount of Freon and the compressor kicks on and both electric fans are running but still the pressures in the low side and high side are not correct then most likely the compressor is shot/done. You would need to replace all major components like ; compressor, expansion valve, drier and a few o-ring fittings. Oil and Freon.
That is what the mechanic determined. I think the compressor could be replaced in my driveway without too much trouble (after I have the shop remove the refrigerant from the system). Any DIY issues with the other stuff?
 

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If you determine that the recommended repairs are legitimate and if you are not interested in dropping $3000 all at once, I would suggest tending only to the priority repairs now and the other repairs later.

Suggested Priorities:

1. Intercooler - check the internet, I saw some in the $150 range, this you could install yourself and save the labor cost it's easy.

2. Timing Belt with Hydraulic Tensioner and Roller, Water Pump - I recommend VW factory parts accept for the water pump, find a good after market one with a metal impeller.

As far as the suspected turbo issue, you will know better if there is actually a problem here once the above items are repaired.

The remaining repairs can be addressed later in the order of perceived importance, doing it this way will make it less stressful on your wallet and keep your engine safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If you determine that the recommended repairs are legitimate and if you are not interested in dropping $3000 all at once, I would suggest tending only to the priority repairs now and the other repairs later.

Suggested Priorities:

1. Intercooler - check the internet, I saw some in the $150 range, this you could install yourself and save the labor cost it's easy.

2. Timing Belt with Hydraulic Tensioner and Roller, Water Pump - I recommend VW factory parts accept for the water pump, find a good after market one with a metal impeller.

As far as the suspected turbo issue, you will know better if there is actually a problem here once the above items are repaired.

The remaining repairs can be addressed later in the order of perceived importance, doing it this way will make it less stressful on your wallet and keep your engine safe.
Thanks for the suggestion. I think this will be my plan of attack. I have the intercooler on order and it should be here in a few days. I decided to spring for a new diverter valve and N249 since those parts are old and may be a failure in the future if they aren't now. And, I'm having the shop do the timing belt work. They are a VW/Audi shop, so I assume they use OEM or equivalent parts. I think they said they would use a Continental belt... Anyway, they are good folks so I trust they will do a good job.

I do feel like I need to try to fix the A/C stuff. I understand the compressor isn't too bad to replace. Don't know about the condenser and dryer and whatnot, though. Guess I'll find out!
 

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A/c

Thanks for the suggestion. I think this will be my plan of attack. I have the intercooler on order and it should be here in a few days. I decided to spring for a new diverter valve and N249 since those parts are old and may be a failure in the future if they aren't now. And, I'm having the shop do the timing belt work. They are a VW/Audi shop, so I assume they use OEM or equivalent parts. I think they said they would use a Continental belt... Anyway, they are good folks so I trust they will do a good job.

I do feel like I need to try to fix the A/C stuff. I understand the compressor isn't too bad to replace. Don't know about the condenser and dryer and whatnot, though. Guess I'll find out!
It's a good Idea to replace all components in the a/c system because they're all the same age. compressor, expansion valve, drier. Every fitting you disconnect replace the rubber O-ring even if it looks good. If you have never done A/C repair before buy yourself a set of manifold gauges and vacuum pump, harbor freights has good prices on those. Maybe this picture will help ya it's from when I replaced my A/C system last year. Good luck
 

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Esse10, did you get a kit; that came with everything? At my brothers shop; they found a vendor that has a/c rebuild kits with everything you need to do the job. That is a easy way to go; cheaper than dealer parts.



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kit

Esse10, did you get a kit; that came with everything? At my brothers shop; they found a vendor that has a/c rebuild kits with everything you need to do the job. That is a easy way to go; cheaper than dealer parts.



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no, I bought parts at different places but definitely not the Dealer. Pep-boys had an O-ring kit that came with all the sizes for this job. compressor and expansion valve came from oreilly's, condenser & drier I bought aftermarket off ebay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
2. Intercooler: You could pull this off and pressure test it for leaks; you could get a good used one at the junkyard for $50-$100 or maybe even less? There are many used parts right now in the classifieds section; from people parting out their cars. Removing and replacing this part is not hard; it is under your passenger inner fender protective cover, no biggie.
So, I've been looking everywhere to find a DIY or some thread on removing the intercooler. Lots about working on FMIC and several regarding Golfs and Jettas, but I couldn't find anything about removing it on the beetle. So, I'm gonna go our and start pulling wheel and fender liner to see what's what. If anyone has a link to a good resource, could you post it? Just in case?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Got it! Was easier than I was imagining. Pulled the wheel liner and pulled the passenger side headlight and mounting bracket and it was all pretty much there. Gonna see if I can find a new sensor, though. The one in there was pretty fouled up. Black with oil and whatnot. Not a lot of oil came out, though. Maybe a few tablespoons...

So, is that the MAP sensor? I think I've heard that, but I'm not sure...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, here's what I completed yesterday and today. I replaced the intercooler (kept the old MAP sensor as I couldn't find one locally), replaced N249 solenoid/valve thing, and replaced the stock diverter valve with an aftermarket one.

Unfortunately the turbo is still whistling loud. I don't know if there's still a boost leak or not, but the loud high pitch hum is now driving me nuts. Is there anything else it could be? Or is the turbo shot?
 

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If you would; make a video from your phone and post it to somewhere like YouTube and give us the link. Then we can listen to the noise and get a sense of what you are referring to. By the way; what brand and part numbers were the n249 and dv you installed?


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Just curious; did you check the air intake tubes; starting from the air box to the turbo and then from the turbo to the inter-cooler? There are clamps and o-rings that seal these rubber tubes to their metal counter parts. A leak any one or more could cause a whistle; not to say that is the problem, but it would be worth a look.

Specifically pictured part [CCH DIY 043] or [CCH DIY 048].

Pictures of these parts can be found in this post ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you would; make a video from your phone and post it to somewhere like YouTube and give us the link. Then we can listen to the noise and get a sense of what you are referring to. By the way; what brand and part numbers were the n249 and dv you installed?
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll grab a video and post it today. As for the parts, the n249 came from Napa, but was a German part. The DV was from eBay. Here are the links:

N249
http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/ATM06A906283F/ATM06A906283F_0291099628

DV
https://www.ebay.com/itm/191680790821
 

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too lean

Just fyi,If he had a leak between the airbox and the throttle valve I believe he would have a "too rich" code. I don't believe he mentioned that code previously.
 

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The N249 is good; a oem part from Pierburg, which is a oem for Volkswagen.

As for the diverter valve; I am a bit worried about that one, @ $50, it looks like a Chinese knockoff of a Forge design. These typically require maintenance; disassembly and greasing the internal piston.

Here is the genuine article; a true Forge is around $200, so a Chinese knockoff may not perform as well as a real one or even the stock valve.

Forge Motorsport The Splitter, a Recirculation and Blow Off Valve Product code: FMDVSPLTR

The Splitter, a Recirculation and Blow Off Valve

If you have problems with boost and/or it doesn't perform like it should, you could just go with the stock 710N oem by Kayser, part # 06A145710N and return the Chinese one. The stock 710N; does not require adjustment or maintenance.
 

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I think alot of these so-called mechanics are liars and cheats!!

Get a reader and some wrenchs and get it going again... I have spent a fortune on Hitler in the past two years, my husband finally got his hands dirty after being milked by all the con artists out there in repair shops.
 
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