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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey, am having issues at the top end of the rpm range on my 02 1.8T turbos S (180HP AWP); I have about 70K and have never replaced the DV. I have taken it out; inspected it and tried the "test" as noted in the lined .pdf below. When you are getting at the top end of the power curve; the turbo seems to hesitate and then recover and the boost increases as normal . After researching on line and trying to think things thorough.... the DV seems like a possible culprit! I tested it using this guide:

http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/Misc/VAGLinks.com_DIY_Testing_a_Bosch_Diverter_Valve.pdf

I'm still trying to determine at what level of potential "failure" it is or isn't at; the valve does hold vacuum but for how long... and how much movement is questionable... I have seen other types of valves "seem" ok but are in fact bad (e.g. I had the infamous egr recirculation valve fail as well). My stock DV is the original # 06A145710A and it seems now the current is 06A145710N. I can get another stock DV for around $50; meanwhile, because of the failure prone nature of these... I have been looking at a more reliable aftermarket options.


Diverter Valve, 710N (OEM)
(06A145710N) $49.95

MJM Autohaus

What have people's experiences been with the stock DV? Does it sound like @ 60K; a failure makes sense at this point? Failure seems to be common but also related to many who have upgraded turbos and crazy psi levels. After doing tons of reading; the APR unit seems like a good choice, it is a diaphragm design, doesn't require maintenance like the Forge units (e.g. 710N) and has some performance benefits as well... $150.

APR R1 Diverter Valve
APR R1 Diverter Valve

The Eurospec unit looks interesting but I can't seem to find much info or reviews about it online; seems $50 less then the APR.

Diverter Valve, Billet Steel
(EPV145710)
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/..._Diverter_Valve_Billet_Steel&products_id=1901

The reviews seem to related two main points: eliminate a common fail part and improved performance; I'm trying to determine if its worth the extra $$. The bosch part has a 1 year warranty. My car is totally stock at this point; I would appreciate people's comments, experiences and recommendations! :)
 

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I would not recommend the APR valve because you are stock and the spring rate is not adjustable.

You could use the Forge valve with green spring for 5-15 PSI or just use a new stock valve.

I've always used a diaphragm design valve, but may go with the Forge swivel vacuume connection myself as it allows more room with a Forge TIP installed.

Perhaps your DV spring is getting weak. With 70K miles on it I'd replace it even though it may not solve the event you described.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can see where you are coming from on the lack of different springs on the APR unit; the reviews I have read seemed to be from people that at the bare minimum are chipped with a aftermarket program or have bigger turbos. Needless to say; more boost in both cases... thus putting more "pressure" on the stock DV; I'm stock so not the same situation.

The issue I have with problem prone to failure parts: I typically, like to try to improve the reliability of said part, if there is a aftermarket solution to the problem.... I also prefer a "one time solution" the APR with diaphragm seemed to be that because it didn't require any maintenance either! Most of the other DV on the market; (e.g. forge) seem to require periodic cleaning and re-greasing of the unit.... sticking does seem to be a problem with these piston style DV's. I would rather do a install and forget type of solution.... maybe another stock unit is the answer... still open to others comments, experiences and recommendations... :)
 

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I understand.

The APR valve is for those chipped making 18+ boost and a spring rate that your car would not be able to operate correctly - not good for turbo.

All of the valves require cleaning for best continued operation. The APR valve is one of the newer released ones, so long term not sure what the results will be since it is made to not be serviced.

Are you thinking of chipping your Turbo-S or want to leave it stock?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Well, ultimately it would be cool to do some upgrades in the future... however, it seems the car keeps me somewhat busy chasing down issues in its stock form (e.g. failed: dv's, egr's, hoses, coolant leaks, coil pack failures, 02 sensors dying, airbag/belt buckle cel's etc.). That being said; for the time being, probably not. I had always figured; once I got outside the warranty, that I would consider chipping and some breathing improvements. Present life issues have reduced my ability to spend on this car; so, for now I am just trying to fix the problems that come up and maintain its ability to be my daily driver! :) By the way; care to share what your setup is and what your experience has yielded in the way of info? I appreciate any comments; thanks for your help.... this question has gotten very little in the way of responses. However, I do realize this forum seems to be less "tech" oriented; then say, vw vortex... :)
 

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The car is a 03 black Turbo-S I bought new in December 02. Here is a list of the mods - REVO SPS3 | Neuspeed 28mm Rear ASB | H&R 26mm Front ASB | KW Variant 3 Coilovers | VF Engineering Transmission Mount | HPA Short Shifter | Forge TIP | Rear Fog | European Light Switch | Euro Sport 2-1/2 downpipe w/highflow cat | Blackedout Headlights | N75H | APR R1 DV | VDO A-Pillar 2 gauge pod with Cockpit Boost and Vacuum gauges | Goodyear F1 G3 225/45R17 | Halo Halogen Yellow Fogs.

With the exception of the front sway bar, Forge TIP and coilovers I did all of the modifications in early 2003. At that time none of the tuners had a map for the AWP motor. There was a REVO office in Sarasota at that time and so I drove over one weekend, they downloaded my map and mailed it to the UK. A few weeks later it was mailed back to Forge in Orlando and uploaded to the car. The REVO SPS 3 is a small dongle with two dials that allows you to change timing, boost, go back to stock and enable anti-theft by plugging into the OBD port under dash.

For many years I did nothing to the car and was thinking of trading for something new when I heard about the Golf R coming. Then I decided I would keep the car, still interested in the Golf R, but I will keep the TS. The Turbo-S is a pretty special car. When chipped, with downpipe and Turbo Inlet Pipe it's pretty quick. Upgrade the suspension to get the power to the ground and it's geat fun.

The air box I never messed with as IMO it is fine like it is - Also living in FL you have to think about all of the sand your going to be sucking in with an aftermarket intake. The Forge TIP alone makes a big difference. Advertised as adding 12 HP at the wheels for a chipped car. I can feel that - Car runs much smoother opening up the inlet track and mid-range there is nice increase.

I've always had a set of the Eibach springs that VW sold back in the day. Very firm ride and very hard on other suspension components so recently got rid of those for the coilovers. With the coilovers, front and rear SB and transmission mount there is absolutely no flex, very planted, no pitch or roll - awesome ride, but not for everyone I suppose.

When I decided to keep it I started to do some more work and bring it back to it's new looking state. I recently installed the KW coilovers and front sway bar. I've had a set of Exor wheels on it since new, but recently preordered a set of the new fifteen52 Tarmac 18x8.5 black wheels for a completely new look. It is as low as it will go now for street driving.

I had the water pump and timing belt replaced at 60K. Other than that the only big expense was the replacement of several wiring harnesses and fuse box due to a short that was caught before a major melt down of the electrical system. I replaced other smaller items, but nothing major. Kept the maintenance current of course. The car has 100,100 miles now.

So the plan it is keep the Bug, sell my 2 Ducati scooters for a down payment and if my wife does not object too much, put another VW in the garage next year.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Just wanted to update a old thread; I replaced my DV (710N) and it has pretty much cleaned up the problems I was having! I am still going to try to troubleshoot some other boost control components; like the n75 valve and see if it is working ok. :) I have been testing my beetle all over and the ecm is adapting to the new part; its really running well! I guess I have been limping around in a low boost for so long... I didn't realize how bad it was! :cool:
The boost is substantially higher; I can hear the whizz of the turbo better and the car has come alive! This was hard for me to diagnose; as the DV was holding vacuum under testing but either the spring was weak or the valve was binding... maybe both?! I'm definitely; learning things as I go and I didn't have a extra part to compare or swap it to try it out. Major issues resolved! :)

factory original from 2002
1.the original one is a Bosch unit;
Volkswagen part #: 06A 145 710N
Bosch part #:0 280 142 114
Date code on top: 29.11.01 14 09
(I am assuming the first three groups are: day, month, year)
Made in Germany

bought from a vw dealer 6/2013
2. the new part is a different vendor; it is a Kayser:
Volkswagen part #: 06A 145 710N
Kayser part #:KYS 3.023.351
Date code on top: 07.11.12 22 16
(I am assuming the first three groups are: day, month, year)
Made in Germany
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Another update: this evening I pulled the Wastegate Bypass Regulator Valve (N75). The Bentley manual; says to test it by using a VOM and the spec is 14 to 20 Ohms. Mine is coming up @ 30.2 Ohms. So, I am out of range; reading on the web, people say high resistance will cause the valve to act slower. I am hoping; this maybe the reason for the any remaining fluttering or lack of boost actuation, when it needs to come up and the occasional what seems to be under boost... slight hesitation of turbo spooling up. Probably going to buy a new one tomorrow and see if the new fixes the problem completely.

My valve is the original from 2002; they have updated the suffix of the part number, the new part # is: 06A 906 283E.

factory original from 2002
1.the original one is a Eaton unit;
Volkswagen part #: 058906283F
Made in Monaco
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I went to the dealer today; bought a new N75 valve; it was the new "revision". Popped it in and did some stop, go and highway driving. Part was adapted after awhile; totally smooth delivery and boost; as noted in other sites... it does seem kind of a muted boost compared to my old part. That being said; it runs like a totally different car, I may try swapping the old and new out; see how they act differently.

VW original part; from local VW dealer, new as of 7/2013
1. no oem markings on the part;
Volkswagen part #: 06A906283E
Made in Monaco


Testing: I did a Ohm reading on the new and old N75 valve, oddly enough.. they were pretty much the same 29.8 (old)range and 29.4 (new). Physically, they look identical; aside from different part numbers. I don't know if the new part has a different spec; I'll do more research online to see.

Blowing into different ports; showed a slight variation, I don't know if this is right or wrong. Maybe others can comment; I would like to know, if anyone has a clue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I am definitely convinced my other Wastegate Bypass Regulator Valve (N75); was bad, I am getting used to the smooth and excellent delivery both the DV and N75 replacement have brought to my everyday driving! :) I cannot tell you; how much of a pleasure this car is to drive now! After all these years; its like driving it, when it was new! Everyone, should check these parts if after 10 plus years; if their 1.8Ts, do not seems to run like they used to! :cool:
 

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thats good advice. a lot of people think by putting an aftermarker DV on their bug, it will make all their problems go away and boost higher and vroom vroom yadda yadda.

coming from an x-VW mech, the engineers made it this way and spend countless hours making it work. if you have stock a ecu, then you need to replace parts with stock parts to make it run efficiently.

when u upgrade ecu's, then you need to replace stock parts. unitl then keep stock for best performance. good job sir!

-jd
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
007, so.. what has your experience been with the DV and N75 failing; is the "soft failure" a common problem? As a newb; I was confused as I was trying "conventional" testing methods that the Bentley said to do: (e.g. VOM for n75 and vacuum tester with the DV). In the case of the N75; the resistance was out of range but the DV was holding vacuum, it however was BINDING (spring or worn out idk)... as opposed to leaking. Any thoughts? I'm finding more and more "tired" or "soft failure" parts on my car; I'm learning as each situation comes up but its hard to know many times if a part is "bad", when most times they are worn... not working to the performance level they need to. Having a extra part; after doing what testing I am told to do by the manual, is obviously at some point; what you have to do, to see if it fixes the problem. I try to not just "throw parts" at a problem; try to figure out what is going wrong. Having a collection of "known good parts"; would always be nice but I usually don't have that luxury! Any comments appreciated, thanks! :)
 

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i have very rarely seen a DV go bad. i mean they do.. dont get me wrong. but 90% of the problems i saw in the shop related to boost was someone trying to get the performance up by slappin some "new parts" on it thinking they were getting extra HP.

the n75 valve goes out a lot. if youre upgrading the ecu a "J" valve is usually what is recommended. being the gear head i was and the mods i had (398 whp last dyno) i was going through everything at least once. (axles x4, tranny x2, clutch x2)

point being.... n75 will go out before the dv will.

-jd
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
007, I'm curios what type of hardware upgrades that you did; engine, trans, axles, clutch, etc. to be able to handle that level of power. I am assuming; that after all those failures, you hopefully found a setup that worked. I myself; had the fork failure problem on my 02M six speed. I'm still working through issues with it but am going in the right direction. You can read about my problems; here: http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmission-talk/50942-turbo-s-just-lost-1st-2nd-my-02m-6-speed.html

Any and all comments; appreciated! :)
 

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So did you measure the resistance of the new valve?

Just would be curious if there was any difference in the resistance and if the resistance is actually some reason to condemn the part, there are other things going on other than just the electrical resistance one would assume?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
As I mentioned earlier; I actually tested the new the n75 valve and ironically enough, the resistance was similar.

Testing: I did a Ohm reading on the new and old N75 valve, oddly enough.. they were pretty much the same 29.8 (old)range and 29.4 (new).

Having said that; apparently, each valve (with the different suffixes) has different resistance specs. The problem, I had; was that new revised part (06A906283E), I have no clue what that would be. With the new part; it has no oem markings on it and I don't even know who I would contact to find out this kind of info. I suppose; I could contact the original part oem: Eaton

I think; this is a case, where if you were a official VW tech; you could call VW tech line and they might know! :)

This thread; seems to indicate each valve has different values but the ones listed, do not match my Bentley manual.

N75 Resistance

Good thread; with explanation of the N75 and possible problems of resistance, based on heat, operating temps etc. This guy; did a resistance test, while putting it in hot water, the change temps caused his Ohm reading to spike. So, maybe I should have done something like that and see if there was a significant change in the reading as well; this makes sense to me. As the engine gets hot; it could cause the valve to fail or change how it reacts to voltage. Interesting troubleshooting technique; none the less. Maybe hooking up the leads to a VOM; then putting a hair dryer on it, would be another way to test the valve with thermal differences?

N75 wastegate actuator valve explained/symptoms. - AudiWorld Forums

More 1.8T and N75 info here:

VWVortex.com - The Official New Beetle/New Beetle Convertible D.I.Y./FAQ Thread

Here is another page; while not the exact same valve, the principles are the same.

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87750
 

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007, I curios what type of hardware upgrades that you did; engine, trans, axles, clutch, etc. to be able to handle that level of power.
engine mount kit was big. bushings, was huge. nothing can be done for the tranny, unfort. i went with a stage 4 race clutch from AWE. i tried R-axles but they broke like the stock ones so i just went beck to stock ones. replaced all the bolts on the powertrain to grade 8 if they werent already. its not a stage 3 turbo kit... its a huge investment of fixing the next thing that breaks and see how long it takes for something else to break.

-jd
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I'm assuming that you are running the 02M; I did the following to beef it up:

1. wavetrac differential
2. arp differential bolts
3. put bolts in the pins/rivets of all the shifter forks; welded end of the bolts when it was possible, used loctite on threads, when welding wasn't possible.
4. southbend clutch silent stage 2, endurance; with lightened steel flywheel.

Now, there are steel forks you can buy from USP; that hopefully, eliminates potential fork failure from the brass parts of the fork.

https://www.uspmotorsports.com/SteelShiftForkTransmissionUpgrade/6Speed-02M/02Q-.html

HYDE16 Reviews Peloquin LSD and USP Steel Shift Forks - VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com

I am also; when I pull the tranny again, going to install a shim behind the throw out bearing; to hopefully fix the shifting issues with the aftermarket clutch/flywheel conversions.

VWVortex.com - NLS 02M clutch shim kit now for sale!

Online Store - | Coopersburg, PA | NLS Auto Performance Customization & Repair

My SB clutch; is starting to get noisy (at idle), so I might try to warranty that too, when its out. Hopefully, fix all the issues; having stiff 5th/6th at the moment. I bought another fork and it was a superseded part number from VW; so, I hope that will fix the issue.
 

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i didnt do anything to the tranny. except replace it x2. lol... i dont have that car anymore so i wont need to beef anything up again. i would have loved tohave a peliquin or a quaif.

-jd
 
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