NewBeetle.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
]Hi, folks,

I need your help with my Beetle, 2006 model, 1.6L gas engine, manual tranny.

Just recently after I did not drive it for over one and half month, I suddenly found
the engine of my Beetle got serious problem.

During a day, whenever I first start it, the engine is knocking badly; sounds like no
engine oil is pumped through the engine.The video link on Youtube is here.
knocking - YouTube

After the first ignition, the engine just keeps knocking. BUT if I turn off the engine
immediately, even a couple of seconds after the first ignition, and turn it on again,
the knocking goes away. Here is the second video showing the engine sound after the
second ignition.
Normal - YouTube

yesterday, I took the car out of garage and drove on the highway and locally for half hour,
the engine sounded perfect. I could not even hear the engine inside the car with both the
windows all the way up. I am wondering whether my Beetle got the problem with oil pump???
Or because I have not driven it for so long, the gas or engine oil goes bad????

The engine sounds perfect as long as it is started twice. But everyday after its first start,
the engine is knocking as if one metal hits another metal directly. By the way, the temperature
here is not that cold at all,roughly 55F. My car only has 48000 miles on it.

Need your guys' help. :confused::confused::confused: Thanks a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Hey, I am not familiar with the 1.6L; as it was never offered in the USA, I assume it is similar to the 2.0L... normally aspirated engine. If the car; was not driven for a long time, most likely all the oil drained into the sump and very little was left in the head with the hydraulic lifters. So, while I could not decipher any of the "knocking" sounds from your first video; it could be something as simple, as the lifters being dirty and not getting enough oil to "pump up", thus making a metallic sound. Now, if you are not familiar or don't feel confident making these types of diagnosis; it would probably be worth it, to take it to a professional independent VW shop or even the dealer to have it evaluated, the problem diagnosed.
If the car has been sitting for a long time; there is allot of lifter noise, you might get some engine oil conditioner that will clean the lifters and that way, they would work better and eliminated the hydraulic aspect of them not working (if in fact that is the problem). Here is the USA; there are various companies that make oil treatment/cleaner and they can really help this type of issue. These usually require a oil change; after use.

Now; you would want to figure out if you have:

1. outside engine issue

a. external accessories are failing: (e.g. tension-er pulleys, a/c, alternator etc.) (anything along the belt path)

2. internal engine issue

a. component failure, low oil pressure, hydraulic lifters, rod/crank bearings etc.

It takes a somewhat trained ear and some basic troubleshooting steps to figure out what the sound is or where it could be coming from. Let us know; if you want to proceed with the work yourself or take it to a shop. Because of the potential for a catastrophic failure of the internal components in the engine or the whole engine as a total catastrophic loss; I would drive the car as little as possible or not at all until the problem is diagnosed correctly. Give us some info; on how you want to proceed and we can go from there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
;);););)
Thank you so much for your quick response.
It sounds really weird that my Beetle did not have that kind of problem at all 2 months ago. You may have not noticed what I wrote about in the first post. The weird thing is :

As long as I shut down the engine immediately, even after a couple of seconds( first ignition), and turn it on again, the engine would sound as normal as usual. Yesterday, I drove the car for half hour, it ran perfectly. The problem only occurs at the first (cold)start everyday. But the temperature here is not cold at all.

See the red lines. That is what I feel confused. I rarely drive my Beetle since it is my second car sitting in the garage all the time after I bought it a year ago.

By the way, the battery seems weak even after I recharged it yesterday. Today, I tried to start the engine and the battery seems not strong enough. I hope it is not the problem of the alternator.

This weekend, I would make another video so you can better decipher the noise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Again, it is hard to know; it could be a oil pressure issue, some sort of electrical/mechanical component, external component, etc. etc. If I was with you; "down under" and could hear what is going on, I might be able to give you a sense of what I think/thought the problem is. Right now; there are just so many possibilities, I just don't know what it could be. Usually, when you first start the engine; the secondary air injection pump turns on (electric) and if you turned the car off, it might cause that to not come back on? I'm just shooting from the hip here; oil pressure, when you first start an engine is usually low.. so, that as I said before.. could be a issue as well. As I said before; until you properly diagnose the car; I wouldn't drive it, if that is at all possible to minimize any possible damage that could occur to the engine (this maybe a big deal or something really simple). Better safe; then sorry, your beetle is speaking to you... listen or don't listen at your peril! Do you want to proceed with the diagnosis; troubleshooting and repair yourself or seek outside professional help?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thank you again.

I would like to proceed to DIY diagnosis first. If I can't figure
it out, I would definitely look for professional help.


I remember back half year ago, the engine had knocking problem
as well when first started it. But it automatically disappeared
after several weeks. At that time, the knocking was not as bad
as this time. Back then, I turned on the engine and let it run
at idle, it was knocking for about 10-15 seconds, and then the
noise went off and the engine sounded as usual, very quiet and
smooth. At that time, I thought it was because the car had been
sitting for long, the oil pressure could catch up immediately
after the engine start.

From the muffler, I saw some liquid emitted. :(:(

I am posting the thread here to see whether others have had the
similar problem or not.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Troubleshooting steps:

Before starting anything; have the car scanned, I don't know about Australia but here in the states, any auto parts store will do this for free. Write down the trouble codes and post them here; they can possibly point you in a direction for troubleshooting your problem. Some codes; will have to be read by a specific scanner that is Volkswagen compatible; you can pick these up for cheap online. One that is cheap; is a Autel MaxiScan VAG 405; I don't know if amazon is available in Australia but here it is about $40 US, here.

Amazon.com: vag scanner

You can look up codes; here:

Ross Tech Wiki:

Ross-Tech Wiki

We could start with:

external accessories:

1. secondary air pump; you could disconnect the electrical plug and see if the sound is still there. These are prone to failure and can get noisy, if they are dying or if the rubber mounts are broken.

2. remove the serpentine belt and any other belts on the accessory belt path. See if the sound is still there.

Internal:

this can be tougher; as aside from changing oil or adding conditioner, you don't really know what maybe happening inside the engine without a trained ear, a pro checking it out or tearing things apart.

1. oil pressure: remove the oil pressure sending unit and hook up a oil pressure test gauge and see if the oil pressure is within specification. Out of spec; most likely the oil pump, clogged pickup tube or pressure relief valve is clogged or sticking. These procedures are outlined in the Bentley service manual and can be helpful in the step by step process.

2. compression test; somewhat of a shot in the dark but if you think, the fluid coming out of the tail pipe is not normal; a compression test would tell you the condition of the cylinders, the head and the head gasket.

There are other possibilities; hopefully, some of these steps will get you going in the right direction. Tell us about your mechanical skills; how much you have worked on cars and how comfortable you are about working on things. :confused: :)

Are you able to ascertain; where the noise is specifically coming from? Also, do you know what the engine code is? (usually the code is on the sticker of the timing belt cover or stamped on the head itself or another sticker somewhere in the engine compartment)

Looks like they offered two versions:

1.6 engine codes: AYD or BFS

1,595 cc (1.595 L; 97.3 cu in) I4 SOHC 8V

102 PS (75 kW; 101 hp) @5600
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I am a freshman at this time. That is why I like to learn from your guys
to DIY maintain the Beetle. I would take my Beetle to a local mechanic
for inspection. But before I take it to the shop, I need to know what
may be wrong, otherwise I would be fooled.

Here is another video shot a week ago.
2013 08 09 recharge battery VW Beetle - YouTube
Do you think the engine sounds OK?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Here is not the States, nothing is free but everything is expensive.
Sorry to say so.

I got your point and we have access to Amazon. But I may, most likely,
take my Beetle to a qualified mechanic for inspection. But I need to
do some homework first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Do you have access to a automobile scan tool of any sort? In your possession; borrow from a friend etc.? What are your auto mechanical skills and experience level or history? (don't want to sound like I am prying but just want to know where we are with your knowledge/skill level) :confused:

In your last video; I didn't hear any "knocking" sounds but it there seemed to be maybe a loud "hissing" sound or loud bearing noise?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Do you have access to a automobile scan tool of any sort? In your possession; borrow from a friend etc.? What are your auto mechanical skills and experience level or history? (don't want to sound like I am prying but just want to know where we are with your knowledge/skill level) :confused:

I DIY changed engine oil, coolant , air filter, brakes, tires, etc.
Never done anything on engine, frankly. I have general knowledge about
automobile engine by self study online. As I said, I am a freshman or
a beginner at this time.:D:D:D:D:D

That is why I would like to look for a professional help later.
But at present, I prefer to figure it out as much as possible
before I take the car to any mechanic.

Thanks again. This is why I appreciate and enjoy this website
so much.:p:p:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Do you have access to a automobile scan tool of any sort? In your possession; borrow from a friend etc.? What are your auto mechanical skills and experience level or history? (don't want to sound like I am prying but just want to know where we are with your knowledge/skill level) :confused:

In your last video; I didn't hear any "knocking" sounds but it there seemed to be maybe a loud "hissing" sound or loud bearing noise?
That is what I said before, once after the second ignition, the knocking sound went off immediately. Even the first start/ignition only last two seconds.

After I drove it for half hour yesterday, and I set car the at idle, the engine even sounded much quieter
than what the last video showed (when recharging).

If the knocking still remained after the second ignition, I would have taken the car to a mechanic right away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Well, investing in a inexpensive VW compatible scanner; would be a good idea. I am not aware of the online or typical automobile parts stores in your area (or in Australia for that matter) but the link I showed you above, (on amazon) there are quite a few out there for not too much money. Most of these are made in China; seeing how you are closer to China then us; I would have to assume these are available "down under"; as well! :) A VW compatible scanner; would most likely pay for itself the first time you used it, as most shops charge to scan your car for you and you could scan it yourself. At this point it time; to successfully, maintain, troubleshoot, a modern car (especially VWs); a scan tool is pretty much a necessity... as much as a screwdriver, or spanner is to take something apart! :)

What auto parts stores or online shops are popular in Australia or in your area?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
We have a bunch of auto part stores here such as Supercheap Auto, Auto One,
Repco, Autobarn, etc.... Both labor and parts are much more expensive than
those in the states.

On the other hand, it is not easy to find a trustful and qualified mechanic.
Even a VW dealer can not be fully trusted if you have little automobile knowledge.

At this point, this is not the money issue only. The fun we own a Beetle
lies in what we can do for our Beetle as much as what our Beetle can do for us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
I listened to your first video and what I heard was a fan or blower sound like maybe the air pump running. Some of the Beetles sold in the US have an air pump that runs for a minute or so on cold start to help get the catalytic converter running and reduce emissions. Maybe a hose has come disconnected and the noise is louder, or maybe I'm not hearing the sound that you refer to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Well, I certainly; do not have a clue about where to buy things like the scanner in Australia. You might post up questions about where to get parts, find a good vw shop and were to buy a vw scanner from etc.; on the Australian specific forums over at vwvortex. That site; is a major site for the VW community and the Australian forum section... seems to be pretty active from the number of posts shown:

Australia

There are quite a few enthusiasts Volkswagen websites; that are from your neck of the woods! Check them out here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=aus....0.69i57j0l2.11113j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You never know; there probably, are VW clubs, enthusiasts, or people that might be willing to help with your car or bring a scan tool over to help out!? You never know; VW fans are generally a pretty nice and helpful group of people (in my experience!).. :)

Air pump; I think this is something to look into! If you disconnect the electrical plug to it and when it is cold; start up and turn off or whatever you were doing before.... you could then see if the "knocking" sound your were hearing, was still there. If the sound goes away or is not heard; then it could be the pump is bad or the rubber mounts that hold it to the bracket, maybe broken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Well, I certainly; do not have a clue about where to buy things like the scanner in Australia. You might post up questions about where to get parts, find a good vw shop and were to buy a vw scanner from etc.; on the Australian specific forums over at vwvortex. That site; is a major site for the VW community and the Australian forum section... seems to be pretty active from the number of posts shown:

Australia

There are quite a few enthusiasts Volkswagen websites; that are from your neck of the woods! Check them out here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=aus....0.69i57j0l2.11113j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You never know; there probably, are VW clubs, enthusiasts, or people that might be willing to help with your car or bring a scan tool over to help out!? You never know; VW fans are generally a pretty nice and helpful group of people (in my experience!).. :)

Air pump; I think this is something to look into! If you disconnect the electrical plug to it and when it is cold; start up and turn off or whatever you were doing before.... you could then see if the "knocking" sound your were hearing, was still there. If the sound goes away or is not heard; then it could be the pump is bad or the rubber mounts that hold it to the bracket, maybe broken.
;););););)
Thank you guys, both Red99 and Billymade. We are all Beetle
enthusiasts indeed. That is why we get together here. One of
my purposes to post my question here is to seek help from VW
enthusiasts; on the other hand, is to help others in case they
have the similar problem in the future.

I would do more homework online before I take the car to any
mechanic. I would shoot more videos to let you guys better decipher
the noise. The knocking at the first start is really loud and
annoying indeed. Frankly, that knocking noise made me scared and
I thought the engine would fail immediately. But after
the second ignition right after the first start (even only last 2
seconds), the knocking goes off automatically and the engine sounds
as usual.

Trust me about what I describe. But I will take your advice.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: confused???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,058 Posts
Another possibility: I don't know about the 1.6L but on the 1.8T there is a timing chain "rattle" on startup (this noise comes from on top of the engine; the valve cover area); the reason is, that the tensioner works on oil pressure and the pressure goes down after the engine is shut off. I guess you could look into a shop manual on the 1.6L and see if it has a similar type of setup. When I start my beetle up in the morning; there is a initial "rattle" as the oil pressure is low and then it goes away as the timing chain tensioner pressure goes up. As the engine gets worn; the tensioner get worn, will not work as well and eventually make noise all the time and need replaced. This has also; been mentioned, when the oil pump is failing or has low oil pressure, as it cannot maintain the pressure the tensioner normally has; so, that could also be another indicator of a low oil pressure issue (testing using a oil pressure gauge would rule this out as well). Again, I don't know for sure but another possibility to consider.

You might take your engine cover off and have someone else start up your beetle; that way you can listen for the sound and pin point better, where it is coming from. Once you pin point the noise/area; then, you could make a video of that; by having someone else start the car for you again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
But after
the second ignition right after the first start (even only last 2
seconds), the knocking goes off automatically and the engine sounds
as usual.
That is one reason that I suggested the air pump. It only runs on a cold start so it may well be programmed to only happen on the first startup within a certain duration after the engine was last run. It could explain why it doesn't happen after you restart.
 

·
5/23/10 <3
Joined
·
11,171 Posts
I agree with red99. Sounds like a fan or something, not a knocking from the engine. I would look into it and see if the 1.6 has a secondary air pump. I bet its a loose hose or something from that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Problem solved !!! Knocking noise gone!

I agree with red99. Sounds like a fan or something, not a knocking
from the engine. I would look into it and see if the 1.6 has a secondary air pump. I bet its
a loose hose or something from that.
:D:D:D:D:D
Thank you ,guys. You are absolutely right. The loosen hose connecting to the air pump caused
the knocking noise, not the engine itself. The attached photo shows the loosen hose (as my
hand holds). After I re-tight the hose to the air pump, and I first turn on the (cold) engine,
it sounds as normal without noise anymore. Here is the link on Youtube which shows you the sound
of the engine.

knocking goes off VW Beetle
2006 1.6L Petrol - YouTube


Thank you again, everyone.:p:p
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top