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I'm not a dude.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, so my friend with a 5 speed is buying my other friend's 6 speed and selling me his 5 speed. The swap won't happen for a minute, as my 01M is being a trooper and won't die. :rolleyes:

I need to start compiling a parts list and don't know where to start. I do have an ECU for an AWV 5 speed somewhere I believe lol. I think most of the parts that will be coming off his GTI will work for my car.. I just need a list to make sure I get the right stuff! Obviously I'll need a cluster, since I can't use the one from his..

PS: Anyone need an automatic that refuses to die, unlike the first one I had? lol!
 

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5/23/10 <3
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Definitely talk to Al, since he is in the midst of getting this swap done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh I totally forgot! Thanks lady, I'll message him!
 

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Cup- 2k New Beetle GLS/ 'Chino- 13 Beetle 2.5
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Congrats on making the move to a 5 speed... and an O1M transmission that's holding up :lol:

I was going to go TDIclub.com and simplify the "kill da auto wabbit" 5-speed swap thread, BUT it's 100+ pages long :eek:! thankfully they made a wiki page to simplify things for us. so here is the link to that wiki page with the supply list.

http://dspauto.com/node/5
 

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^^^ in addendum^^^
I would go with a single mass flywheel, vs the dual mass. I have been told they have been issues with the dual mass flywheels. of course you can go with the lighter weight flywheel. let it be known, if you go with a lighter weight flywheel, you may have some clatter... you can deal with the clatter, then the lightweight flywheel is right up your alley.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Al, those are great links!

Anyone know if I have to swap the ECU or can I use VAG COM to re-code my current one for a manual? It has Revo Stg 2 on it, and while I do have a spare ECU, I'd rather not have to have it re-tuned. I guess I might have to anyway..
 

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I've still not gotten any sort of confirmation one way or the other on that. I'm hoping between you and Al, we can get a good gasser how-to document out there, or at least an addendum stating differences for the gassers.

And yes, single mass definitely has chatter with it. You'll notice it a lot at first. But you get used to it. Bill went with a single mass in his TDI when he did the swap. Even if the clackity clack of the diesel, you hear the flywheel chatter. But its totally normal.
 

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Thanks Al, those are great links!

Anyone know if I have to swap the ECU or can I use VAG COM to re-code my current one for a manual? It has Revo Stg 2 on it, and while I do have a spare ECU, I'd rather not have to have it re-tuned. I guess I might have to anyway..

I know what the TDI, you don't have to swap out the ECU. WagenWerks, the folks that doing Cup's tranny swap, & certified VW mechanics, told me that the ECU does not need to be replaced on the gasser ECU either, neither the speedo. I'm going to call them again, just to double check... as memory serves me, that is what they told me.




I've still not gotten any sort of confirmation one way or the other on that. I'm hoping between you and Al, we can get a good gasser how-to document out there, or at least an addendum stating differences for the gassers.

And yes, single mass definitely has chatter with it. You'll notice it a lot at first. But you get used to it. Bill went with a single mass in his TDI when he did the swap. Even if the clackity clack of the diesel, you hear the flywheel chatter. But its totally normal.
I believe the clatter only exists if you go to a 14 pound single mass. the 21 pound single mass is OEM weight and will give you silent running without the problems of the dual mass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Randi, by the sound of things, George & Cup are the gasser guinea pigs for the 5 speed swap... at least here on the org. All of the transmission swaps I know of are TDI's :D
Well with Danny being in OK with me now, I'm sure we can throw together an awesome DIY since we're both getting the stuff together for the swap! SWAP PARTY! :D Convenient timing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I've still not gotten any sort of confirmation one way or the other on that. I'm hoping between you and Al, we can get a good gasser how-to document out there, or at least an addendum stating differences for the gassers.

And yes, single mass definitely has chatter with it. You'll notice it a lot at first. But you get used to it. Bill went with a single mass in his TDI when he did the swap. Even if the clackity clack of the diesel, you hear the flywheel chatter. But its totally normal.
Well darn. I just contacted Ross Tech, and unless your car is drive by cable* (typo, thanks Al! haha), the ECU from an automatic will not work with a manual. He also cautioned SOME of the ECU's from a Turbo S are not compatible with some 5 speeds, if anyone wants to know. And also reminded me, you will need to use vag com to adapt the immobilizer with the ECU.

So... guess I'm gonna have to beg Revo to give me a break on the cost of tuning my new ECU. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Woops meant drive by cable :) haha.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hold up, I have another update.

Talked to my tuner, and he clarified something for me. (This is what I got from the conversation, sorry if something is not "technically correct" I sort of explained this with my own words)

You do not necessarily have to change your ECU, regardless of drive by cable or drive by wire. BUT it does require "re-mapping" the ECU, something vag com cannot do. Vag com can only re-code, not fully re-map. If you were going from a 5 speed to a 6 speed, vag com can do it. Since the automatic ECU is written to look for a signal from the TCM no matter what, you can't just code change it and delete the TCM. An ECU with a manual file isn't looking for a signal from a TCM, obviously. So it can be coded for a 6 speed. (In this situation, coding would not affect driveability per se, since YOU are the TCM, but if you were to swap a 6 speed while still using an ECU coded for a 5 speed, you would lose cruise control)
Makes much more sense to me. Meaning, if you're already tuned, or thinking about a tune, do it now. As long as you have it re-mapped with a 5 speed file, it should work. AFAIK, I don't think a dealership would be willing to uh, over-write a stock auto map with a manual map... but a tuner most certainly will.

So my gameplan is, to ship them my ECU while it's torn down, and have them bench flash it. In the event it does not work (because sometimes the bench flashes don't) I have a spare ECU I can use to get me to the tuner and have the tune loaded via OBD port. Hoping it doesn't come to that, but we'll see. PM me if you'd like dibs on the brand new 5 speed ECU I have laying around. (assuming I don't need it!)

Anyone have thoughts? I cannot say this is 100% true, but from what I understand, this makes a whole lot more sense. Maybe ross tech guy didn't catch that I was tuned? Or he isn't allowed to endorse remapping an ECU? I dunno. But that option does seem to be viable.
 

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Well, the thing is though, you CAN change it all over with VAG-COM on a TDI. No codes for a TCM. Everything works as it should. Only difference is the PRNDL screen is still there (though inactive).
 

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I'm not a dude.
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, the thing is though, you CAN change it all over with VAG-COM on a TDI. No codes for a TCM. Everything works as it should. Only difference is the PRNDL screen is still there (though inactive).
Yeah, but none of us have TDI's lol!

Come on Al, you don't want a tune? It's fun... ;)
 

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If you are going to do all that swap work; have you considered the 02M six speed? :confused: What about swapping a car with what you want in it already; don't want to be a mod/swap kill joy but with all of the amount of work that it takes and how cheap our cars are getting to these days... I thought I would ask! :) How about a upgrade to a Turbo S; vroom, vroom!? :) That being said; i applaud you, for doing all the research and preparing to do, the swap!
 

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Honestly the swap isn't as bad as it sounds. IMO, much easier than buying another car. And if you know the history of the car/motor, then why ditch it for one you don't know about?
 
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