[weezerjerry]

Hard start after getting gas [SOLVED]

I have a 99 NB and have been having problems since we bought it about 5 months ago. When I bought it I took it to my mechanic and he told me to do a full tune up and all seemed good to him. So, I went and bought plugs, wires and a fuel filter. Didn't seem to change anything.

When I get gas the car is SUPER hard to start, like turning over for 20-30 seconds before she finally starts, then I have to keep it up around 2500 RPMS or it will die for about 30secs to a minute.

The next logical step seemed to be the fuel pump. I did that the other night (love how simple that seemed... Unless I missed something important). My wife gets gas a few days later and the same problem! Glad I blew $250+ on a fuel pump for fun!

Any thoughts on the next steps? She seems to run fairly well, maybe just a little rough once it is all started. Also used to struggle to start at low fuel levels but that doesn't seem to be the issue as much.

********SOLVED**********

After quite a while of this issue and VERY LITTLE time on this site for help (thanks everyone!) it is fixed.

Here was the exact issue:

After getting gas the car took for ever to finally start (like 30-40 seconds of cranking, then would try to die for another 30 seconds unless you kept it revved up a bit (2-2500RPMs). ONLY AFTER GETTING GAS.

Trouble code: p0440 (EVAP PROBLEM)

Fix: N80 purge valve bought on Amazon for $22 - Dorman 911-800 (O'Reilly's part was the same part but $45)

Part is located on the passenger side behind the coolant reservoir and is very easy to replace. Took about 20 minutes tops.

Hopefully this helps someone else!!!

 

[billymade]

What brand of fuel pump, did you buy? Have you tested the system for fuel pressure within spec; shown in the vw service manual? The new fuel pump; could be faulty, it has happened before.

Have you scanned the car for trouble codes? This could give you a possible clue to the problem; post them up here, we will try to help!

If the fuel pressure is good (running and when turned off; should maintain fuel pressure, test fuel pressure regulator, as per service manual>good!):

Then, I would look into:

1. trouble codes: any?

2. fuel trims: values

3. clean/align throttle body

4. crank sensor

5. immobilizer: blinking?

 

[tedybear]

Start simple.

Have a qualified shop--or do it yourself with a fuel pressure gauge kit (they are cheap enough from Harbor Freight Tools).

It will need to be spliced in to the feed line--not to hard really just look up directions.

All you need to do is open your door and you will hear the fuel pump prime itself. Then have someone crank the engine over (the fuel pump will run during this time as the computer is getting a crank/cam signal) and watch the gauge. Gauge does not read expected amount? (consult Haynes or Chiltons repair manual--I have one but it's not handy currently) Then something in the fuel system is choked.

Also pull the small vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator. If you see gas in that line? Your regulator is shot. (internal rubber seal leaky) That can cause a super rich condition that can flood out the engine. Not only will you have to much fuel pressure at your injectors for starting? You'll be drawing in raw fuel into your intake as well.

I'd start simple at this point. Fuel pressure test.

S-

 

[Oh Randi]

n80 purge valve. I can almost guarantee it.

 

[weezerjerry]

Thanks for all of the replies! I will look into the fuel pressure regulator and see what I can find there.

What is the n80 purge valve? can someone point me to where that might be? I have not worked on VWs at all as this is the first one I've owned. I have done most everything on my Subaru's and Fords put am not familiar with the N80 purge valve.

 

[weezerjerry]

I did a little searching and I think this how to will be very helpful:

http://newbeetle.org/forums/2-0-liter-gas/59573-diy-evap-system-leak-checks.html

Thanks! I will report back and let you know how it goes tonight! I will also scan for codes as the CEL is on and I have my scanner back!

 

[cupc4ke]

I have to agree with the purge valve. Mine did the exact same thing, ONLY after getting gas. Replacing the purge valve fixed it =]

 

[weezerjerry]

So I have a p0440 code. Is that still the purge valve? Or could that be more issues? Would this be possibly causing poor fuel economy? I thought this little beetle would get better mileage than it does... I suppose this all could be related.


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[weezerjerry]

What brand of fuel pump, did you buy? Have you tested the system for fuel pressure within spec; shown in the vw service manual? The new fuel pump; could be faulty, it has happened before.

Have you scanned the car for trouble codes? This could give you a possible clue to the problem; post them up here, we will try to help!

If the fuel pressure is good (running and when turned off; should maintain fuel pressure, test fuel pressure regulator, as per service manual>good!):

Then, I would look into:

1. trouble codes: [P0440]

2. fuel trims: values [not sure]

3. clean/align throttle body [done]

4. crank sensor

5. immobilizer: blinking?

I answered what I could above ^^^

Brand was from autozone so not sure. Seems odd though that it would have the exact same issues as the one I pulled. I am leaning toward the purge valve I think


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[billymade]

Code: does seem to point towards purge/evap system:

16824/P0440/001088 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Malfunction

16824/P0440/001088 - Ross-Tech Wiki

 

[weezerjerry]

This was the problem! Purge valve fixed it for $25 from amazon... Ugh glad I wasted $300 on a fuel pump... I guess that's where the mechanic might have saved me some cash lol!

 

[billymade]

Hey, glad you go it fixed! Can you give us the part number and more info on the repair (diagnosis, testing, install etc.); so, that others in the future can learn from your experience?

For the fuel pump; considor purchasing a fuel pressure tester and that way you can confirm the problem (less throwing parts at the issue)! A couple of diagnostic tools; can really pinpoint and help you! This way you can: troubleshoot, diagnose, and then repair things intelligently (saves you time and money in the long run)!

They arn't very expensive; the Harbor Freight version is cheap and works fine. I used it to diagnose my fuel pump and it really helped me confirm the problem (there was no question it was bad; with the tester, it was obvious, no guessing).

Fuel Injection Pump Tester
Pittsburgh Automotive - item#92699 (google: harbor freight coupon: for a extra 20% off!)


Only: $29.99
Sale: $19.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-92699.html#.UxrOKyplDf4

 

[tedybear]

I've got the same tester and it works pretty well. It's a basic starter kit and does it's job. Before shelling out major money, granted at times it's a mechanic recommending things...Even a tech can make a mistake that can cost $$ and not solve anything. Verify, double check, and have fun!


S-

 

[weezerjerry]

Thanks for the help! I will pick up one of those testers! I updated the OP to include the solution, trouble code, and part number with a link to Amazon where I found it for the lowest price.

Now if only I could snap my fingers and have the Beetle be a turbo with leather interior! One day... LOL

 

[billymade]

I appreciate; you following up and posting the info, about the resolution to the problem! These are the type of threads; that will help others in the future! Thanks again!