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Discussion Starter #1
'04 New Beetle convertible 2.0L gas. 135K miles.
Fuel pump was working fine before tank replacement and car was running fine.
Due to an accident where the car in front of me threw something up that I ran over, it put a 6" gash in my gas tank. I have replaced the tank with a tank having the same part number molded into it as the original tank 3XL 372 211-1L. Fuel filter was also replaced. All is hooked up as it should be, per photos taken before tank removal. Upon trying to start it, there was no power to the fuel pump. #28 fuse (fuel pump) is good, I have taken the cover off the #4 relay(fuel pump), and can touch the contacts together with my fingernail in the relay and have power to the fuel pump, proving circuit from the relay contacts through the #28 fuse to be good. I have replaced the #409 relay with no change.
I have checked the power on the black wire out of the ignition switch, and I am getting 12 Volts to the relay from the ignition when in run, 0 volt when off. This is also seen and switching at the #4 pin on the relay
Since the fuel pump relay #409 is a 7 pin relay and the Haynes manual shows only a 4 pin, I am lost as to what the other pins are being used for, though the Haynes manual does show an input from the ECM.
I could use a full detail schematic for the fuel pump system to see where the other relay pins are going and what the ICs and transistor in the relay are doing. I am an electronics tech by trade, and can normally fix most anything with a correct schematic.
Thanks for any help, advise and especially a fuel pump system schematic if someone has or can get one.
Vicki
 

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It looks like you are off to a good start with the diagnosis. The fuel pump relay seems to work and everything after it is good. Here are some more things to check:

1. When the driver's door is opened the fuel pump should run for 1 second. If you listen as you open the door you should be able to hear it. It will only run if the pressure in the line is low, so it needs to be about 30 minutes or more since the pump has previously run. So, after sitting for 30 minutes or more, does the fuel pump run when you open the driver's door? This should indicate that the ECU is sending the signal to the relay.

2. The signal to close the fuel pump relay comes from the ECU. The ECU likely monitors the engine speed sensor when deciding to send the signal to the relay. The engine speed sensors are a pretty common failure item at 10 years or more. To check the engine speed sensor, when you try to start the engine does the tachometer register about 250 rpms? If not, the engine speed sensor could be bad.

3. The power to energize the fuel pump relay comes through the ignition switch and this is a pretty common failure item as well. It turns out that the set of contacts used for the fuel pump also powers the backup lights. With the key in the "run" position, do the backup lights work when you put the gearshift in reverse? If not, the ignition switch is bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Update: Help with Fuel Pump system

Thanks red99
More troubleshooting info from today.
I thought I had pressure on the fuel rail, but when I put a pressure gauge on it, it did not register any pressure even after cranking or manually activating the relay. Tested the pressure gauge on a tire and it is working.
So I then disconnected the black fuel output hose from the tank. There was no fuel output from the tank when manually activating the relay.
With the electrcal connector unplugged from the pump, I get battery voltage (12.10V) on the pins when activating the relay.
With the connector plugged in, activating the relay I get 8.48V on the pump pins. WTF???? And I do not "feel" the pump running either.

So it's looking at this point like I may have screwed something up when I changed the pump from broke-tank to the replacement tank. I ran out of sunlight today(Working in the driveway) so tomorrow I will pull the pump to see if I screwed something and if I get the same voltage readings out of the pump while out of the tank and feel it running.
I will also check the reverse lights issue.
Wish I had a better schematic than the Haynes manual.
Sadly it appears that fuel pump may have died in process changing tank.
Thanks,
Vicki
 

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Well, if you need a new fuel pump; Bosch makes a affordable oem quality one, with built in fuel level sending unit and a new tank seal. You can search for parts here: https://www.boschautoparts.com/auto

Engine Designation (Code): BEV,BGD, Body Type: Convertible

Bosch Part Number: 69740

Find your engine code: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-7192011vw.pdf

Amazon; has a great price with free shipping:

https://www.google.com/search?q=69740&oq=69740&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8#q=Bosch+69740

Also, when you replace the fuel pump; if there is any junk in the bottom, siphon out the gas and clean out any junk with the lint free rags. I used a inexpensive siphon pump; from Harbor Freight with good results.

Fluid Siphon Pump

Pittsburgh Automotive - Item#60598

http://www.harborfreight.com/fluid-siphon-pump-60598.html
 

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Yes, it looks like your fuel pump is bad. The lower voltage with the pump connected is due to the short that the pump effectively puts on the circuit when the motor shaft is locked.

I replaced my fuel pump recently as a preventative measure. I bought a Bosch replacement for less than $90 on Amazon.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update #2

Pulled the pump and got the same voltage readings as when in the tank. Tried to tap with a rubber hammer to see if pump would start, but no.
I did not find any damage to the pump that could have been caused by me when moving the pump from one tank to the other, in fact everything seemed intact, although the hoses were no longer clear but they were brown when I switched tanks as well. And the gauge sending unit works fine.
Pulled the wires connected to the pump and got battery voltage on disconnected pump wires. Could lack of fuel in the actual pump motor itself for have caused the motor/bearings to freeze up? 133K miles on the car so on the pump as well.
So now to order a new pump.
I was told by local dealer the pump part # is 1J0 919 087 S but the part # on my pump is 1J0 919 051 Q. Don't know the difference, but will check with the parts guy when I pick up the new gasket, probably tomorrow.
Thanks
Vicki
 

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Where did they look up the part number and what brand pump are you going to buy? I would recommend a Bosch or VDO/Continental. The thing about these brands; is they include the fuel tank sending unit, tank seal and they are cheaper.

In my case I bought a Vw part (marked VDO); it didn't come with a seal or the sending unit, they were extra.

Then, after I installed the genuine VW fuel pump; I used the old fuel level sending unit (since it worked), then a little while later, the sending unit failed. The sending unit; was separate and cost even more money (msrp $124; plus, I had to remove the fuel pump again; to replace it)! In the long run; it would have been better, getting the Bosch fuel pump, as it comes with a integrated redesigned body, that includes the fuel level sending unit, a tank seal and is a better price to boot! I think; the warranty, is around the same as the VW part as well.

By the way; I have a brand new, unused VW fuel tank seal, if you need one. Genuine vw rubber 109mm fuel pump seal # 1J0919133A. I got it; because, I didn't realize, the Bosch fuel pump, came with one (this was for a 1.8T Jetta).


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Going to order the Bosch unit Friday when my cash comes in. I called the parts guy, apparently the 1J0 919 087 S is the complete assembly and the 1J0 919 051 Q is the top piece only. I did test my gauge sending unit, and it is still good thru full arc.
At least things are looking better now. It would appear at this point that the old pump died sitting too long with no gas to keep it lubed.
 

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Well, if it is the original VW fuel pump; at 11 years or so and 135k miles, I would say that is impressive it lasted that long! It is possible; just being handled, may have caused it to finally die; it may have been on its way out but wasn't fully dead. Who knows but it probably needed replaced; after all those years, anyway. :)

Mine died; at about 70k and 12 years, so you never know. I think; these ethanol added fuels aren't helping anything either; my tank seal, literally fell apart and pieces of the rubber, were in the bottom of my tank! That is why I had to drain it; clean all the rubber pieces out, maybe this contributed to its demise? In my case; the fuel pump check valve, was stuck open and it wouldn't hold any residual pressure but when running, it was within proper fuel pressure specs.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Well, if you need a new fuel pump; Bosch makes a affordable oem quality one, with built in fuel level sending unit and a new tank seal. You can search for parts here: https://www.boschautoparts.com/auto

Engine Designation (Code): BEV,BGD, Body Type: Convertible

Bosch Part Number: 69740

https://www.google.com/search?q=69740&oq=69740&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8#q=Bosch+69740

Also, when you replace the fuel pump; if there is any junk in the bottom, siphon out the gas and clean out any junk with the lint free rags. I used a inexpensive siphon pump; from Harbor Freight with good results.

Fluid Siphon Pump

Pittsburgh Automotive - Item#60598

Fluid Siphon Pump
The Bosch 69740 is not the correct replacement for VW 1J0919087S. The VW part has a 5.4" flange that goes into a 4.85" tank opening. The Bosch flange outside diameter is 4.8" so it would fall thru. I checked this before trying to install as it looked like it was not big enough to go into the tank and hold on the tank.
 

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There are times; when aftermarket fuel pumps, may not be the correct application. Bosch, may not make one for your application; that is why the VIN #, can be crucial in find the correct part. As time goes one; most typical service parts, are being made in the aftermarket but this may not always be the case. Sometimes, genuine VW parts; are you only option.

VDO/Siemens; is the oem for VW, they may make a aftermarket version for your car.

http://www.showmetheparts.com/ate_vdo/

VDO has a new APP; for android/ios, that you can search for parts, based on your VIN #:

download here:

iOS:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ate-vdo-auto-parts-catalog/id918268670?mt=8

Android:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.verticaldev.vdo&hl=en

Here is their "traditional" fuel pump catalog in .pdf format:

http://www.vdo.com/media/3044/flc_catalogue_fuelsystems_v_9_0_en.pdf

Here is the VW catalog online:

http://parts.vw.com/parts/index.cfm?siteid=9

Another option; is to look at the part #, on your old fuel pump.
 

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I am having a simular problem but prior to ordering a replacement pump I decided to look into Red99's posted comments. Back up lights are working fine, i no longer hear the prime at door opening, and the tach bearly gets off of zero when cranking but no code for a engine speed sensor. thoughts?
 

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ajpietro:

Please start your own new thread; explain your problems and tell us, more info about your car: (e.g. year, model, engine, trans, miles, etc.) You will be able to refer back to your own thread more easily and it is easier to keep track of everything. Thanks. :)
 
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