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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ive read a lot about this problem but im still not exactly sure what to do. my wifes has a 2000 1.8 turbo that she completely hates! this go around seems to be the immobilizer. about a month ago she was at are shop and the car started and shut right off. we tried another key, disconnecting the batt for half a day ,etc,etc. finally at the end of the day my buddy jumps in there and after trying to start it a couple of times it stayed running. he shut it back off and about a half hour later she started it and drove it home. the next morning it wouldnt stay running again. that night we got home and it started up and has ben fine. i cleaned the batt cables and all the fuses on top of the batt anyway so i thought maby i got lucky and stumbled on the prob. today it did it again. i have 2 parts bugs . i dont know how anyone owns one of these cars without at least one parts car:) from what i read it seams its the part by the key causing it. can i take it out of the parts car or will it not work ? i have the keys for both of them.can i just take the stupid immobilizer out. i would rather sombody steal it than worring about driving it somewere esspecialy far and it just decide not to run. what do i do now? oh yea.... for sale , 2000 new beetle 1.8 turbo 5-speed silver black inside. has all the stupid broken plastic peices common to these cars. doors only unlock if you hit the remote than bump on the door like fonzi. windows work as well as the sunroof. a/c works good most of the time. its mostly new.new alt ,timing belt ,water pump, does have a badass 2 1/2 " exhaust from the turbo back with no cat and a flowmaster on it . sounds great when it runs. tires are good .has just over 100,000 on it, comes with atleast one parts car ,that will come in handy;)
 

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I don't know if you saw this post but check it out.

http://newbeetle.org/forums/1-8-liter-turbo/61375-stalling-after-start-up.html

Have you scanned the car; what sort of codes are you getting>? Its really up to you; do you want to fix it yourself or take it somewhere to have it done? Some have removed the immobilizer by having their ecu flashed to remove that aspect of the software. I would think your typical VW indie shop or your local VW has fixed this often, because it is such a common problem.

Let us know how you want to proceed and we can go from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
im building her a 66 bug now . i build cars for a living. this one will be completely new and it wont have an immobilizer:) i can fix it but i don't know what needs to be done. i honestly think its bull**** that vw has there own vag com deal to cheak codes when all other cars are just odb2 . i thought they made it so all cars would be odb2 so that dealers couldn't rip people off. whatever... i've been trying to keep this thing going long enough to finish the 66.i don't want to take it to a dealer so that they can charge me $1000 to plug in there com to make it run again . and for how long ? will it just decide to not run again? do i need to change a part or clean a connector? ive got 2 almost whole cars for parts . i want to sell it but id feel guilty selling this to anyone. by the way the first, now parts bug we have blew up after the seal between the oil cooler and block cracked and leaked all the oil out. the other parts car was bought for interior parts for the first one. it blew up one week after we gutted the whole car and put a pretty nice interior in it. well it was nice after we spent hour and hours cleaning all that stupid sticky stuff off of everything inside. what can i do to make this car run . i will sell this car but i wont hide the fact that i hate this car.
 

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I appreciate your feelings about the car and all the brain damage that it takes, to keep these new beetles on the road. I could drone on and on; about all the issues I have had with my two new beetles, thankfully... I won't bore you with the details today! :)

Having said that; if you want to repair that issue, I would repair the wiring that goes to the reader coil. This involves getting access into the steering column and exposing the wiring and the key tumbler, reader coil. I believe; the airbag, steering wheel and cover may need to be removed to do this. I haven't done this yet but as I said in the thread I linked to:

problem seems to be:

A. failed reader coil

1. troubleshooting process; possibly check measuring blocks, using vcds or testing done with a VOM, need to check the bentley manual to see what that process is. Since your in there; would be nice to confirm the coil is ok or at least attempt whatever testing they recommend. If the part ends up being a intermittent (soft failure); you may need to drive it around after doing the wiring work... see if the problem persists.

OR

B. wiring to the reader coil; research seems to indicate it is usually the wiring.

Approach(es) to the repair: either one or multiple ways to get to the end result, to complete wiring repair. The key is trying to fix; the connectivity issue within the wire terminals to the reader coil.

1. replace the wire with a revised repair wire/terminal part; from Volkswagen.

2. clean the wire terminal ends to enhance the wire connectivity.

3. solder or use a hot glue gun; to attach the wire terminal ends and connector to enhance the wire connection.

4. solder the wire terminals to the coil itself and create a permanent connection.

Here is a video; that walks you through the steering column; tear down process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja9RdRy8u94


This needs to be done on mine as well; we just need to do it! If you get to this job; before we do, please update with pics and your progress through the repair! :)

PS: I don't know if you have a scanner but you can pick up inexpensive ones on amazon check out vag405 and if you want to go "deep", there is the $250 ross tech vcds which is the industry standard at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks alot! ill tear the column apart either tomorrow after work or this weekend and ill let you know how it goes.
 

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Here is a good article; that I found that should give us a visual idea of what we are dealing with. They are referencing a Audi but I would assume they are similar (seeing how they are the same company).

audipages Immobilizer Wiring Replacement

They reference at Audi part #; I don't know if this is compatible with the new beetle but we certainly could check with the dealer. The Audi situation; seems the wire wasn't quite long enough, for the telescoping wheel feature. The stress on the wire; seems to have affected the connectivity problem. This may not be the exact issue but its nice to see the parts out in the open. :)

Immobilizer wire part number 8D0 972 275.
 

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I'm starting a photobucker folder; which has pics of manual pages, I think that will help with the repair. I created a slide show here: Beetle Immobilizer Repair Slideshow by billymade | Photobucket

I will update it; as I find more info, photos etc.; that will help us fix this pesky issue; hopefully, once and for all! :)

Maybe when this is all done; we can create a immobilizer diy repair page of some sort.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ok , i took the column shroud off, very easy and the immobilizer pick up is right there. i pulled the speedo out , very easy and found the 2 wires your talking about. in the page on the audi , the immobilizer is under the speedo. no wires are going to the speedo . in the beetle ,is the immobilizer unit in the speedo?
 

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From what I understand the immobilizer is actually in the speedo; the coil reader is connected to the key tumbler. This is the wiring that we are trying to trace and repair. So we would be looking at the plug that goes into the reader coil or the tumbler; then the plug that goes to the speed of the green one in the pictures. From what I understand we need to pull the wires out of the two connectors and solder, clean or replace them. If you have pictures of the wiring and the keys and reader coil please post them up. I am going to my Volkswagen dealership today and will see if they sell any repair wiring harnesses for the repair. I would check for continuity with the wires for the circuit are okay; then you could solder the inns to create a better connection. The option for a permanent connection; could be considered to the reader coil But maybe that's not a good idea either. I would also check the length of the wiring and see if it is getting stretched when the telescoping aspect of the steering column Just pulled out all the way. Please post pics and tell me when you're finding, thanks! :)


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You're below the 2000; so I believe it is the immobilizer II. The vw bentley manual seems to indicate one or other of the wires depending on which version of the immobilized you have. I think I would go ahead and fix both of them just to make sure; I haven't looked at the wine diagram but this is something seeing in the pictures of the manual and what the Ross tech website says. I guess that we could do more research. But I think we're on to the right thing! :)



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I went to the Volkswagen dealer today; I ordered a set of repair wires for the reader coil.

Volkswagen part number: 000979018E wire set $11.16

These wire sets come with two terminals; so according to the parts department manager; this would be enough to complete the repair.

They should show up next week sometime; I also priced a reader coil and ignition tumbler; the only other possibility would be the speedo cluster.

Volkswagen part number 107905855CB cylinder $80.45

Volkswagen part number 1c0920951J instrument cluster $485.27

These parts are from my 2002 Volkswagen new beetle Turbo S 1.8T; it's a AWP engine code with the 02M transaxle. These may not apply to your car; the prices that I'm listing are wholesale/jobber prices that we get through our commercial account. The wires should be the same; I would think, coil/tumbler, have to be special ordered based on your vin #. This way; you can reuse your old keys; you wouldn't have to cut new keys but I think you would have to adapt the new parts to the ecm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ok , its running. its very easy to get to the ends of the wires but changing it might be a pain cause the wires go right into a loom of wires wrapped nice and tight around the column. there is no need to take the steering wheel off. just need a couple torx and a phillips screwdriver .i pulled the connectors off and checked for continuity between the wires . everything seemed good . then i half ass stuck it back together and turned the key on and the immobilizer light went off. so i tried to start it and the batt was very low. started thinking maybe the batt was bad cause i wasn't cranking that long and that was the batt in it when i got it. come to think of it ,we thought that the last time this happened but when we got home it started and thats when i cleaned the cables. today the cables were real nasty and its only been less than a month. so im not sure if by taking the connectors off the immobilizer and the back of the speedo and putting them back on gave it a better contact , but they looked real clean ,nothing at all would have made me think there was a prob there. i really think it had a bad batt. new batt is in and its running fine for now . i appreciate the help.here are some pics. to change the wire though your gonna have to pull at least the bottom cover under the column.



http://newbeetle.org/forums/attachm...01303&stc=1&d=137306730430673041&d=1373067304
 

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Hey, there is no question that the low battery; will cause mobilizer problems, among a bunch of other issues because the computers aren't getting enough voltage to work properly.. I was under the impression this was a long-term issue for you; that being said did you check the actual wiring terminal ends to the reader coil? Did the wires look stretched and was there any pressure on them When the telescoping column was pulled out all the way? How did you clean the wiring; the terminal ends? So, I guess you didn't solder the terminal ends either? If you have anymore pictures of the terminals ends and where it attaches on the reader coil or the reader coil itself; please post this up as well .... thanks! Keep us posted as things go; if it works fine or continues to have immobilizer. issues! :) We all need to fix this really frustrating problem! :)



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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
the immobilizer pick up deal is right on the ignition tumbler. you can see it in the pick its right there when you take the column covers off. the wires look fine at the ends. i did nothing but unplug them ,check for continuity and put them back. you cant tell if it is stretched in the middle cause it goes in a loom with a bunch of other wires. i didnt pull them apart. this problem has been going on for about a month. its really not the kind of problem you can just deal with cause it could not start up any time. we realy dont go anywhere in it together just in case it happens i can go get her and that really sucks to have to worry about it. really would like to just eliminate it all together. even thought about putting megasquirt fuel injection on it nut im not wasting anymore time with it. its for sale:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
in the pick of the key tumbler , the black ring on the end of it is the pick up. you can barely see the green wire going in the plug
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Guess what didnt start today? Yep the new beetle. Checked the batt first .everything is good . I pulled the speedo back out and pulled the green plug. I put it right back in and turned the key on and the imobilizer light when out. Car started right up. Do you think its the wires? I have another speedo and the impbilizer pick up and a key that all go to another car.do you think i need to change any of this or all of it?
 

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Well, from all the research; I have done, it seems to be either:

1. speedo cluster: this is where the immobilizer resides

2. reader coil or wiring to the reader coil

Have you scanned the car and what were the trouble codes? At this point; it sounds like by reconnecting things, you maybe reestablishing a wiring connection problem, getting a immobilizer component that is failing to work again or causing the immobilizer work correctly by plugging/unplugging the circuit (loose or poor contact; that we have been discussing before). If you replace the speedo, reader coil, key fobs etc from another car; then you will have to adapt the new parts to the ecm. This is done with a official VW factory scan tool at a Volkswagen dealer or doing it yourself, with the aftermarket scan tool called VCDS from Ross Tech. I'm not clear if you are going to continue to work with your New Beetle collection but if you are; buying a VCDS is pretty much a necessity at this point, in trying to repair or replace parts of the immobilizer. I am still waiting for my repair wires to show up at the VW parts dept. but that is my next step in trying to execute a process of elimination. I will keep trying and see what happens, the next part would be the reader coil/ignition tumbler and finally the speedo cluster itself. Because of the intermittent nature of things; I am leaning towards a wiring connectivity issue. However, it could be any of the three things; wiring, reader coil, or the speedo. There are always different approaches to a problem; a process of elimination step by step, brings some sanity to the process. Because of the adaptation required for new parts and the fact that the wiring issue has been well documented; I am going to start with the wiring first. VCDS is about $250; it will definitely pay for itself the first time you use it and it would be required for you to swap major immobilizer parts that you have on hand. If you start working with and troubleshooting the wiring; it will not require VCDS but reading the VW specific codes that reside in the ecm, could really help your troubleshooting process. As with anything; it depends on "how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go", right now, without a scanner you are in many ways... flying blind! :(

VCDS License with Micro-CAN Interface $249.00

Ross-Tech Store: VCDS

Overall immo info:

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer

Immo II cluster swapping/adapting process:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/Immo2-cluster-swapping.html

Immobilizer II Key Matching (Cluster):

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_II_Key_Matching_(Cluster)

While I do have VCDS; I have not done any of the above adapting procedures, so I can't really tell you how to do it. If/when I get to the point; where I replace the key tumbler/coil reader and possibly speedo cluster, I will attempt to do this myself.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_II_Key_Matching_(Cluster)

Here are some videos from Ross Tech that give you an idea of the adaptation process for the speedo and the keys. Other videos; give you a sense of the basics of how VCDS works and how you can use it to do various repairs, code reading, clearing etc.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RossTechVCDS/videos

There are some other sub $150 chinese scanners that claim to be able to do adaptations and most of the VW factory scan tool features but I do not have any experience with them.
 

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I did not read the entire thread, but beware, the clusters/speedos in these cars have a lot of smarts in them. They cannot just be swapped out. There is quite a bit of coding to be done to swap the speedo.

How many keys do you have for the car??

I read that the OP was unhappy about the specialized software needed for these cars, this is pretty much the norm these days with any car. I deal with a lot of BMW's and you have the same issues with keys, immobilizers and special software.

I would start with the simple things first, on the BMW sometimes the antenna rings go bad, if the key has been dropped or abused, sometimes the immobilizer circuitry can be damaged.

Not sure but I assume VCDS can display the status of the key being active along with specific codes that your standard OBDII tool cannot read and display.

It may be possible that the $42 VAG-405 can read and display immobilizer codes, I was playing with mine today and it has an immobilizer section, but my car had not issues, so no codes appeared.
 
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