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Discussion Starter #1
Hey, sorry for the newbishness (starting two different "Help ME!!!" threads in one day...), but I've spent the entire weekend working on this thing. It's a 1.8T New Beetle that had a disintegrated water pump. Changed everything per the UTBDIY thread (which is amazing). The only thing I didn't do is the TDC checks on gears...I know, I should've, but I couldn't find them on the crank gear. But it ran fine before, and I did the "paint-mark-transfer" method, making sure everything lined up perfect. Cranked it over a couple dozen times by hand to be sure everything kept matching.

Just got everything put back together and tried to crank it for the first time to see if it worked and...nothing. It starts to turn sluggishly for half a second, then stops, as if the battery were dead. The EPC light, battery light, and CEL all come on. It's a brand new battery, but I've left the trunk ajar for hours on end (storing parts in there as I work), so I thought maybe the light ran the battery down. Threw the battery charger on it for an hour or two, and now it reads 95% on battery level...still does the same thing. Sounds like a completely dead battery when trying to crank. Turns over sluggishly for half a second, then nothing but dash lights.

I'm about to lose my mind. I've been working on this thing for a grand total of 30 hours this weekend. I used to consider myself a decent wrencher. I've swapped the engine and transmission out of my previous car in less than 18 hours. But I'm lost on this POS. Now I'm freaking out because this is my only ride to class tomorrow.

Any thoughts at all, PLEASE let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Update: I just went and tried to turn the crank by hand again (or rather by 19mm 12-point socket...) and it wouldn't budge.

Now, I turned it over by hand at least 20 times after installing the timing belt, no problems. This was the first time I attempted it since installing the serpentine belt, engine mount, etc.

I know not being at TDC could conceivably cause it to not turn over (valves touching the piston and what-not), but why would it turn over fine with just the timing belt on, and not at all a couple hours later when everything else is installed? Sounds like something else to me, but I don't know. Ideas? Thoughts?

Sounds like I'm going to be up a LONG time tonight. :(
 

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Im Just Me
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Are you 100% sure you put the belt on and lined it up right??? Because it sure sound's like you did not .And i would not force it to turn over!!! If i were you i would start over and make sure every thing is aligned right before you put a valve through the piston.I sent my wife's bug to our vw shop just for this reason.If i were you at this point i would get someone that knows the nb to look at it or tow it to your vw shop that you trust:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Oh how I wish I could. :(

I had to borrow $5 to buy some new hose clamps. Paying someone else to do it is definitely out of the question.

I'm 100% positive the marks on the belts were correct. I'm also 95% positive the mark method failed this time. Or rather I failed at it. I think I know how, too. I didn't consider it at the time, but after making the marks, the crank pulley rotated some while I was working on it. When the time came, the marks didn't match up so I rotated the crank all the way around until the marks did match up. So what I think is I'm on the wrong stroke of the 4 stroke engine.

I think. I dunno. Either way, I get to do this all over again. And have to do it much faster this time, because I'll be missing class until it's done. And I have to figure out new things like how to compress the tensioner since I don't have a brand new pre-compressed one to go on there this time.

One thing's for sure: I hate VW. It's not their fault that I did something as stupid as changing the timing belt without actually reading the TDC marks, but that's not the real frustration. The real frustration is the horrible design of this car/engine/engine bay, and that is VW's fault.

German-engineering my ass.
 

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Sounds like the timing is off to me also, hopefully someone a little more in the know about VW water-cooled will come along here, quick. Getting late for that, but a lot of the other regulars check in, in the early mornings. Wish you had posted up earlier.

Sorry. I'd be looking to catch a ride tomorrow morning.

MORAV
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok, I'm confused again. I just got back from class (thanks to the mother-in-law..:shy:) and starting taking everything apart again. I tested the crank by hand (gently...just to see if it would budge...it wouldn't) and I tried again when I pulled the gas lines (in case excess fuel and off-timing were causing it), but it was still locked. Then, I compressed the tensioner on the accessory belt...

...and the crank turns. Easy as it did before the timing belt change. Put the tensioner back down on the accessory serpentine belt, crank won't budge. Compress it (using the wrench and 3mm allen key as cotter pin method) and the crank spins freely. Would timing being off affect this? Do I have to complete the tear apart or is there something here?

Checked the belt that ECS sent me, and they shipped the right part number (according to the belt recommended on their site). Checked my routing of the belt, and it matches this:



Any other thoughts?

Thanks again for continued help and patience.
 

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Im Just Me
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With out the serp belt on does the tensioner pully spin free ??? It sound's like the bearing in the tensioner is frozen???
 

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From what I hear you saying, the serpentine belt is what is causing the problem, not the timing belt. Logic would dictate you check the components being driven by the serpentine belt and see what is seized. If everything turns freely, then there may be a belt issue causing something, when it's under tension of the belt, to bind.

M.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm an idiot. The crank turns fine. I was trying to turn it clockwise. That works fine until the serpentine belt is engaged, and then it won't because the alternator only turns counter-clockwise.

So disregard all of the serpentine nonsense. The problem is that the car won't turn over. Sounds like a dead battery. That's a timing belt issue, isn't it.
 

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Im Just Me
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???? A dead battery is a dead battery it has nothing to do with the timing unless you dont have the belt on the way it was before you took it apart.You said you left the trunk open for a long time so poss you killed it?? try charging the battery.You better be 100% sure you did the job right before you turn that motor over!! Only you can know that!! Good luck let us know what happends .:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My home battery charger said it was at 100%, but it still acted that way.

But I think I've found the problem. My alternator has stopped turning. When I try to start the car, it tries to spin over, but since the alternator is locked up it can't and doesn't start.

Just had an epiphany. I lost a metal radiator hose clip...the one that goes on the thermostat housing...and never could find it. Curious if it may have been sucked up by the alternator. If so, this may be an easier fix than I expected. Take the alternator apart, pull the clip out, and all may be good with the world.

Here's to hoping for an easy fix.
 

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Wife's 01 1.8T mechanic
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If you didn't do the timing marks, then you needed to do the paint marks, and the count the teeth on the belt method. Did you do that, or just line up the paint?

The timing marks are really easy to see on both the crank and the cam gear. It is a dot on the crank, and a little notch on the edge of the cam gear where the belt rides.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I did the "paint match method". I ended up with two different issues. For some reason, the alternator magnets were locked up. I took it apart, blew out the rust and dust and reassembled it and it worked fine. So the alternator issue...which was locking the system up and making it sound like a dead battery...is solved.

Second issue, timing was off. I used the paint method because I couldn't find the notch on the cover at first, and I couldn't find the flywheel mark on the auto transmission. I ended up one tooth off, so I had to tear the whole thing apart again.

Now I'm doing it by lining up the cam gear and crank gear, you know, "the right way." I had it lined up and was trying to put the belt on, but I'm not having much luck with that. I cannot get the damned belt on there while keeping the notches lines up, it's just too damn tight. The tensioner on this car is a joke. I've lost so much respect for "german engineering" since I started working on this car. I've worked on a lot of vehicles, but this is the most poorly designed engine setup I've ever seen.
 

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Im Just Me
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Well first off i do feel your pain.If you had heard me venting when i bought this nb for my wife.(her life long dream car)I have also worked on car's of mine all my life till i got her this one lol it is much different than any american car i ever worked on.But i must say it is far better!It is not poorly designed sorry to say it is you not the german engineering.Some times a guy just has to admit we dont know everything and take it to someone that does.As in my case i took her's to a great shop that i trust ,I sat their while they did all the work + some and it was done right the first time with in 3 hour's.So you cant blame the german engineering for your lack of.Some times you just have to bite it and say it's over my head ,as it is in your case.:rolleyes:
 

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I did the "paint match method". I ended up with two different issues. For some reason, the alternator magnets were locked up. I took it apart, blew out the rust and dust and reassembled it and it worked fine. So the alternator issue...which was locking the system up and making it sound like a dead battery...is solved.

Second issue, timing was off. I used the paint method because I couldn't find the notch on the cover at first, and I couldn't find the flywheel mark on the auto transmission. I ended up one tooth off, so I had to tear the whole thing apart again.

Now I'm doing it by lining up the cam gear and crank gear, you know, "the right way." I had it lined up and was trying to put the belt on, but I'm not having much luck with that. I cannot get the damned belt on there while keeping the notches lines up, it's just too damn tight. The tensioner on this car is a joke. I've lost so much respect for "german engineering" since I started working on this car. I've worked on a lot of vehicles, but this is the most poorly designed engine setup I've ever seen.
If you had the alternator to that point and it was in that shape, I would have gone ahead and rebuilt it, obviuosly it's aging and things are wearing down.

As to the getting the belt on. Do some thread searching, there is one in the last two months, maybe month, that addressed this very issue, with the solution.

M.
 

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Wife's 01 1.8T mechanic
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Are you using a new tensioner, with the pin still in? That makes for no tension on the belt. If not, you need to buy one. That is the part that usually fails and causes a belt failure.

Do you still have all your paint marks on the crank/cam/old belt? If yes, you can time it perfectly, and don't need to worry about TDC. Just count the bet teeth between the paint marks on the old belt, then transfer new paint marks to the new belt counting EXACTLY the same number of teeth. Put the new belt on, cam first, lining up the marks. Get a couple of teeth on the crank, then crank the engine over with a socket and push the belt into place like you are putting on a bicycle chain. Works perfectly.
 

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Are you using a new tensioner, with the pin still in? That makes for no tension on the belt. If not, you need to buy one. That is the part that usually fails and causes a belt failure.

Do you still have all your paint marks on the crank/cam/old belt? If yes, you can time it perfectly, and don't need to worry about TDC. Just count the bet teeth between the paint marks on the old belt, then transfer new paint marks to the new belt counting EXACTLY the same number of teeth. Put the new belt on, cam first, lining up the marks. Get a couple of teeth on the crank, then crank the engine over with a socket and push the belt into place like you are putting on a bicycle chain. Works perfectly.
If you follow the thread, the OPer didn't use marks (skipped that) and had it out of place by one tooth (?), he is re-installing with the new tensioner already released.

M.
 

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Wife's 01 1.8T mechanic
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No, I got that. He said in his first post that he did the paint method. He needs to re-do the belt, with the pin back in the tensioner. It can be replaced in a vise. He also needs to hope he didn't beind things when he tried to start it.
 

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No, I got that. He said in his first post that he did the paint method. He needs to re-do the belt, with the pin back in the tensioner. It can be replaced in a vise. He also needs to hope he didn't beind things when he tried to start it.
Sorry, it didn't appear you had read it as he said he had used a new tensioner and released it and wasn't sure how he was going to get the new belt back on.
And I have to figure out new things like how to compress the tensioner since I don't have a brand new pre-compressed one to go on there this time.
"this time" indicating to me it was new when he did it the first time. At least I hope it's a new tensioner. Kinda pointless otherwise.
Are you using a new tensioner, with the pin still in? That makes for no tension on the belt. If not, you need to buy one. That is the part that usually fails and causes a belt failure.
And I'm with you, hoping for no bent valves.

M.
 

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:eek:hnoes: when one does not line up the timing marks properly :scared: bad things can happen. Also timing belts stretch, hence the need for a tensioner. Painted belt marks really are not accurate and can be one to two teeth off.

The potential for for either CAM or Crank pulley being moved when reinstalling the belt is a gimme. A compression check can be done to see if the valves are bent. This can be done by hand turning the crank instead of trying to start it.
 
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