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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just had my Bug serviced by my local mechanic. They replaced the fuel pump and Mass Air sensor and cleared the codes. Picked it up and drove 2 miles home before the problems came right back:

Check engine light
Won't accelerate, accelerator only works to halfway point?

Not sure what codes they're getting, but they are stumped.

Also, after replacing the fuel pump, now the gas gauge only registers 3/4 when full.

:confused:

UPDATE (10/9/15)
Beetle is a 2000 2.0L automatic.
Located in Broome County, New York.

Original problem was the same: check engine light, won't accelerate, accelerator only works to halfway point.

MAF and fuel pump were replaced based on diagnosis of original issues.

Old MAF unavailable due to being returned for core.

Mechanic says he ensured the fuel level arm was snapped into the sender arm, claims all sender units are a little bit different and give different readings.

Called my mechanic and here are the codes they're getting:

16486 P0102 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circ Low Input
16518 P0134 O2 Sensor Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 No Activity Detected
16684 P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
16686 P0302 Cyl.2 Misfire Detected
17663 P1255 Engine Coolant Temp.Circ Short to Ground

All of these are received intermittently.

Hilf mir bitte!!! (Help me, please!)
 

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We need some background info on what is going on.

Where are you located? City/County/State?

Why was the fuel pump and MAF replaced in the first place??

Did you have this same acceleration problem to begin with?

Clearly the shop needs to sort out the fuel gauge issue. Do you know if just replaced the fuel pump or did they install a complete fuel pump and sending unit? Sometimes the fuel level arm is not properly snapped into the sender arm and this will cause the fuel level to not read properly.

Call the shop and ask for your old MAF back, hang on to this for now. Find out what brand MAF they installed and where they purchased it. MAF's do not fail as often as they are replaced. There are a LOT of aftermarket and counterfeit Asian MAF's that DO NOT WORK properly. Siemens/VDO/Bosch MAF's are the only way to go on a German car, stick with the same brand that was originally installed on the car. BUT beware the Asians can print labels and cast plastic to look and say what ever they want, so just because the MAF may have a Siemens/VDO/Bosch does not mean it is real.

My initial thought is there may be a drive by wire/electronic throttle problem, but these types of problems can be caused by basic electrical problems or even bad grounds.

Get the codes read and get your own code reader. If you are in California, good luck getting the codes read, PepBoys may do it, but auto parts stores do not.

Most auto parts stores in states other than California will loan you an OBDII scan tool.

Also buy your own OBDII tool. Start with a smart phone/tablet App.

Get an OBDII smart phone/tablet App and interface, typically $30 or less. These Apps are usually best for driveability issues and they support Emission Readiness Monitor Status, Freeze Frame and Live/Realtime data. They are also great for Logging data for review after the car has been driven and can really help find unusual problems. Logging is very helpful for the less technical to pass date on for more advanced users to offer comments.

Android - OBDFusion formerly known as Touch Scan for approximately $5.00 and ELM327 OBDII to Bluetooth interface.

iProduct - OBD Fusion for $9.99 and ELM327 OBDII to Wifi interface.

Some people prefer to have an extension cable to keep the interface away from their feet.

Something like these cables are often of interested:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A13I33IUTGJ9BK

Amazon.com: Diageng OBDII Extension Cable, 5ft (144201): Automotive

I usually suggest getting the OBDII interfaces from Amazon if you are located in the US/North America or in your specific Region/Country. Make sure you choose an interface that indicates that the order will be "Fulfilled by Amazon" otherwise you may be waiting for WEEKS for an interface to arrive from Asia. Ebay is another option, but pay attention where the interface will be shipped from, again weeks for an interface from Asia, so if you can wait and want to try to save some money, go for it, but if you need an interface soon, choose wisely.
 

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Gee

:popcorn: GEE, If it's the 2.0 engine then a common failure that most mechanics fail to check is the Ignition coil get's hairline cracks.....my 2cents on this.
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
We need some background info on what is going on.

Where are you located? City/County/State?

Why was the fuel pump and MAF replaced in the first place??

Did you have this same acceleration problem to begin with?

Clearly the shop needs to sort out the fuel gauge issue. Do you know if just replaced the fuel pump or did they install a complete fuel pump and sending unit? Sometimes the fuel level arm is not properly snapped into the sender arm and this will cause the fuel level to not read properly.

Call the shop and ask for your old MAF back, hang on to this for now. Find out what brand MAF they installed and where they purchased it. MAF's do not fail as often as they are replaced. There are a LOT of aftermarket and counterfeit Asian MAF's that DO NOT WORK properly. Siemens/VDO/Bosch MAF's are the only way to go on a German car, stick with the same brand that was originally installed on the car. BUT beware the Asians can print labels and cast plastic to look and say what ever they want, so just because the MAF may have a Siemens/VDO/Bosch does not mean it is real.

My initial thought is there may be a drive by wire/electronic throttle problem, but these types of problems can be caused by basic electrical problems or even bad grounds.

Get the codes read and get your own code reader. If you are in California, good luck getting the codes read, PepBoys may do it, but auto parts stores do not.

Most auto parts stores in states other than California will loan you an OBDII scan tool.

Also buy your own OBDII tool. Start with a smart phone/tablet App.

Get an OBDII smart phone/tablet App and interface, typically $30 or less. These Apps are usually best for driveability issues and they support Emission Readiness Monitor Status, Freeze Frame and Live/Realtime data. They are also great for Logging data for review after the car has been driven and can really help find unusual problems. Logging is very helpful for the less technical to pass date on for more advanced users to offer comments.

Android - OBDFusion formerly known as Touch Scan for approximately $5.00 and ELM327 OBDII to Bluetooth interface.

iProduct - OBD Fusion for $9.99 and ELM327 OBDII to Wifi interface.

Some people prefer to have an extension cable to keep the interface away from their feet.

Something like these cables are often of interested:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A13I33IUTGJ9BK

Amazon.com: Diageng OBDII Extension Cable, 5ft (144201): Automotive

I usually suggest getting the OBDII interfaces from Amazon if you are located in the US/North America or in your specific Region/Country. Make sure you choose an interface that indicates that the order will be "Fulfilled by Amazon" otherwise you may be waiting for WEEKS for an interface to arrive from Asia. Ebay is another option, but pay attention where the interface will be shipped from, again weeks for an interface from Asia, so if you can wait and want to try to save some money, go for it, but if you need an interface soon, choose wisely.
UPDATE (10/9/15)
Beetle is a 2000 2.0L automatic.
Located in Broome County, New York.

Original problem was the same: check engine light, won't accelerate, accelerator only works to halfway point.

MAF and fuel pump were replaced based on diagnosis of original issues.

Old MAF unavailable due to being returned for core.

Mechanic says he ensured the fuel level arm was snapped into the sender arm, claims all sender units are a little bit different and give different readings.

Called my mechanic and here are the codes they're getting:

16486 P0102 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circ Low Input
16518 P0134 O2 Sensor Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 No Activity Detected
16684 P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
16686 P0302 Cyl.2 Misfire Detected
17663 P1255 Engine Coolant Temp.Circ Short to Ground

All of these are received intermittently.

Hilf mir bitte!!! (Help me, please!)
 

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Well, do you want to fix it yourself or have the shop handle it? Technically, they didn't fix the car; so, I would return it to them and have them complete the job. However, I would stipulate; that if it is going to cost you any more money, you will not agree to any more charges without a estimate first. Now, if you think; they are not competent and do not want to work with them and want to fix it yourself, that is a decision you need to make. We still need to know; what brand parts they replaced things with. As noted; aftermarket MAFs are problematic and the oem Bosch MAFs are the way to go. Also, aftermarket fuel pumps; ALSO, have given members here problems, as many times they cannot provide the performance needed to ensure these cars run well. OEM VDO or BOSCH; is highly recommended. Poor quality aftermarket parts; have caused allot of problems around here and made trouble shooting performance issues, even more of a challenge.

Here are the some definitions; to your trouble codes:

16486/P0102/000258 - Ross-Tech Wiki

P0134 Volkswagen - HO2S11 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (02 sensor; before the cat)

Read more: P0134 Volkswagen HO2S11 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected OBDII Engine Light Trouble Code | Engine-Codes.com

16684/P0300/000768 - Ross-Tech Wiki

16686/P0302/000770 - Ross-Tech Wiki

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17663/P1255
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, do you want to fix it yourself or have the shop handle it? Technically, they didn't fix the car; so, I would return it to them and have them complete the job. However, I would stipulate; that if it is going to cost you any more money, you will not agree to any more charges without a estimate first. Now, if you think; they are not competent and do not want to work with them and want to fix it yourself, that is a decision you need to make. We still need to know; what brand parts they replaced things with. As noted; aftermarket MAFs are problematic and the oem Bosch MAFs are the way to go. Also, aftermarket fuel pumps; ALSO, have given members here problems, as many times they cannot provide the performance needed to ensure these cars run well. OEM VDO or BOSCH; is highly recommended. Poor quality aftermarket parts; have caused allot of problems around here and made trouble shooting performance issues, even more of a challenge.

Here are the some definitions; to your trouble codes:

16486/P0102/000258 - Ross-Tech Wiki

P0134 Volkswagen - HO2S11 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (02 sensor; before the cat)

Read more: P0134 Volkswagen HO2S11 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected OBDII Engine Light Trouble Code | Engine-Codes.com

16684/P0300/000768 - Ross-Tech Wiki

16686/P0302/000770 - Ross-Tech Wiki

17663/P1255 - Ross-Tech Wiki
Mechanic states that new MAF installed was Cardone brand from Advance Auto. He did check the fuel pump pressure after installation and it was within spec. Fuel pump brand is:

Replacement REPV314506 Fuel Pump | Auto Parts Warehouse

bought online by me and overnighted to the mechanic because I wasn't paying over $520 for a flipping fuel pump from the garage.
 

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Based upon feedback; of what we have seen around here, I question the quality of those parts, especially the fuel pump. The cheap aftermarket fuel pumps; tend to not perform under load at the needed levels required ($60 is extremely cheap; something has to give at that price and it is typically the use of low quality components, like the pump ) . Bosch is recommended for the 02 sensors; one member here installed a Dorman MAF recently with what seemed like good results but we do not know how things have been since then. Ironically enough, many oem parts are cheaper then aftermarket stuff from many auto parts stores. Amazon has been a great source for affordable oem parts.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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A few things, the mechanic is a ass if he thinks it is NORMAL for a replacement fuel pump/sender unit to give inaccurate fuel level readings. If your mechanic stated and "BELIEVES" "all sender units are a little bit different and give different readings", he should be selling Slurpies at 7/11. Might be a junk part, might be he bent the arm during installation, might be the level arm is hanging up on a hose or wiring?

So the fuel pump is junk in my opinion. I only installed Siemens/VDO/Bosch pumps in any of the German cars. Install them and forget about them.

MAF, NEVER buy them from the local auto parts store. Not sure about the "core" return. This tells me what you got was likely junk unless the mechanic is just telling you he had to return the "core" because he pitched the original.

So getting back the the original situation, seems that you still have the same problem even after the MAF and fuel pump were replaced, with the added benefit of an improper fuel level reading?

This sounds more like a common ground or electrical problem rather than an individual sensor problem.

Search the forum here, I recall many cases where a bunch of codes pop up due to a bad ground or connection somewhere. I will see if I can find it. Not sure it would 100% fit/apply to your case, but it sounds familiar.

Stay away from this "mechanic" he need to get a REAL job at 7/11 or just pump gas.
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I got a bad vibe from the kid when he first called and told me the fuel pump was $500+. When he tried to tell me about the fuel level sender my BS alarm went off.

I'm willing to eat the cost of the first fuel pump to have them replace it with a Siemens/VDO; that junk pump was my fault for being cheap/unknowledgeable.

I also agree that this smells like a harness/ground problem. Too many indicators, and I don't even work on cars for a living.

Thank you all for all the help and guidance. We're now into the 3rd week of this nightmare.
 

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Yay Yellow
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:popcorn: GEE, If it's the 2.0 engine then a common failure that most mechanics fail to check is the Ignition coil get's hairline cracks.....my 2cents on this.
My 2.0 has had to have 2 new ignition coils since I got her a little over 2 years ago because of similar acceleration problems (one actually got a visible crack on the underside,) and my last vw went through coils so often my dad bought several spares knowing I would need them.
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update (10/12/15):

Mechanic's VW friend "tried a few more things" but they still have no idea what's ailing my Bug.

Here's the path forward I told them to take:
1) Install (free of charge) new Bosch MAF and Bosch Fuel Pump shipped from Amazon (THANK YOU billymade!). RETAIN the replaced parts.
2) Reset codes
3) Pray

I told them that several of the codes:

16486 P0102 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circ Low Input
16518 P0134 O2 Sensor Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 No Activity Detected
17663 P1255 Engine Coolant Temp.Circ Short to Ground

smack of a connection/wiring issue possibly due to a worn/intermittent connection. The Engine Coolant Temp sensor was replaced prior to the original issue appearance when I had the radiator replaced due to leaking. I told them to check the connections.

The other codes:
16684 P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
16686 P0302 Cyl.2 Misfire Detected

may be a cracked ignition coil (THANK YOU esse10 and LuciBug!) so I directed them to check into that. I'm also having them replace plug wires and spark plugs (I already purchased them but never installed) to rule those out as well.

With any luck, between the excellent advice here on NewBeetle.org and the new parts, we should be able to nursemaid my mechanic through this and get me my Beetle back!
 

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For the coolant temp sensor; did you replace, the one in the coolant flange, next to the head? That is the location of the (G62) sensor, noted in the Ross Tech Wiki:

17663/P1255 - Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit (G62): Short to Ground

17663/P1255 - Ross-Tech Wiki

Keep in mind; the coolant temperature, has only a "idiot light" and no tradition gauge. Here are the different "modes" of the coolant temp light:

Blue coolant light = engine cold
Flashing blue coolant light = fault in the coolant monitoring system
Flashing red coolant light = low on coolant
Steady red coolant light = engine overheating, pull over and stop engine IMMEDIATELY and do not run until the problem has been identified.

Now, NOTE: the flashing blue coolant light; this is what happened to me, when I had a wiring problem at the sensor plug. In my case; one of the wires, in the electrical plug/connector broke off and gave me the trouble codes, plus the blinking blue light and the light would stay blue, never turned off. I went to my local VW dealers parts dept.; got new terminal end repair wires and a new plug. They say; electrical errors are common and they replace the terminal ends and plugs often. So, if the sensor is ok; you might check the plug/wires and replace them, if they are damaged.

If you look in the service manual; there is a testing procedure, that will confirm if the sensor wiring and sensor, are working correctly. Having a scanner with live data; will be helpful, to monitor the temperature readings.

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...mputer)/component_information/specifications/

Again, for the Bosch MAF, 02 sensors and other parts; you can look them up here:

https://www.boschautoparts.com/

Mass Airflow Sensors Bosch Mass Air Flow (MAF) Engine Designation: AEG

Bosch Part Number: 0280218002


http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0280218...TF8&qid=1444664273&sr=1-2&keywords=0280218002

Premium Oxygen (O2) SensorsBosch invented the automotive oxygen sensor, which is also referred to as an O2 sensor or lambda sensor. Our Premium Oxygen Sensors are thimble and planar switching sensors that are designed to meet or exceed OE specifications.

Engine Designation: AEG, Position: Upstream

Part Number:
16978


Premium Oxygen (O2) Sensors Bosch invented the automotive oxygen sensor, which is also referred to as an O2 sensor or lambda sensor. Our Premium Oxygen Sensors are thimble and planar switching sensors that are designed to meet or exceed OE specifications.

Engine Designation: AEG, Position: Downstream

Part Number:
16132


Be sure; to look for these parts on amazon; you can save a TON of money, buying them through them.
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I ordered this MAF from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010ADHTA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

and this fuel pump too:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001C602HW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01

Garage owner reports the fuel pump fixed both the gauge issue and the fuel pressure issue. I plan to return the bad replacement pump to AutoPartsWarehouse.com for credit under warranty.

The Bosch MAF sensor seems to be doing worse than the Cardone MAF from Advance Auto in that the car is not even driveable now due to misfires. New plugs and wires didn't help either.

I will pass along the new info regarding the coolant temp sensor and see if that helps them.
 

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Boom! Good to hear; the new fuel pump helped, junk fuel pumps cause ALLOT of problems around here and you are just one more confirmation, that cheap parts do not work!

:runnethov

As for the misfires and the MAF problems; that will require live data testing, to confirm the MAF is working as it should. The misfires; can be a number of issues: low compression, cracked wiring/bad grounds (check VW tech bulletins), cracked coil pack, (vacuum leaks, disconnected hoses, etc. etc.

Having a scan tool connected to the car and reading the trouble codes, checking the fuel trims, could help you find the problem.

Fuel Trim Info - Ross-Tech Wiki

Hopefully, they can troubleshoot the problem and fix it; if the car gets thrown back in your lap, we can try to help you diagnose the issues.

Meanwhile, if you don't have one; I would recommend you get a ELM327 OBD II adapter from amazon ($10 or so); you could read live data and check for basic trouble codes, for under $20. These run on a smart phone or tablet; for Apple/iOS get Wifi and for Android, get Bluetooth versions. There are a number of OBD II apps; that you can download and then scan the car and see, what is going on.
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well, the garage threw up their hands on the car today. They left the Bosch MAF disconnected so that the car will run (BARELY!) enough to take it somewhere else.
I returned their loaner car and picked up my poor Bug tonight, and it has never driven worse, skipping and missing, no power, stalled out twice on the 3 mile trip home.

At least the gas gauge reads correctly, but scant consolation for 3+ weeks with no solution and no running car. The only positive is that the owner decided not to charge for "all the work they did" to help me out.

I'm going to attach my cheapo code reader this weekend to see what's left on the list that's keeping the check engine light on.

Unfortunately, I'm the only person on the planet who doesn't own an iPhone or Android pad or phone, so I'll have to do some investigating on the live data hookups and apps.

I'll keep posting progress until the Bug is fixed, or traded. I'd hate to lose it, it's been a great little car, a beast in the snow.
 

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Again, do you want to fix it yourself or get professional, competent help? That is good; they didn't charge you for their inability to troubleshoot the problem! I'm sure; you would have appreciated them fixing the problem but it sounds, they don't have the ability to do so. It is; what it is, having the car for three weeks, that's a long time. Keep in mind; we are here to help, let us know what you want to do. :)
 

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2000NB
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update 11/3/15

Ran into the owner of another local garage at the local supermarket last week, explained everything that had been done to the Bug and set up an appointment to drop it off to him to get a second look at. (The garage is 1/4 mile from my house). They plugged in the Bosch MAF sensor, reset the codes, and drove it up and down the highway with no issues. Told me to come get it and try it, let them know if anything shows up. He did say #4 cylinder was oil fouling and that might be causing misfires, warning me that all the local machine shops have closed so there is nobody locally to do the machine work on a rebuild.

No check engine light so far, and except for a couple of skips on steep hills it's running pretty good. More careful test driving will take place, and I'm turning the house upside down looking for my ODBII cable that I bought years ago so I can capture some live data.

What I DID find, sadly, is that the previous garage detached the back seat bottom completely (hinges detached from body, seat bottom loose) and somehow my driver side taillight lens is now cracked. I appreciate them not charging me for all the diagnostic work they did for the 3+ weeks they had the Bug, but WTF?! Put my car back together BEFORE you give it back, and fess up if you damage it!
 

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adaptation

Maybe the other or first garage didn't do a throttle valve/maf adaptation after replacing parts that's why it was running crappy. Good to hear it's back running good, drivable atleast.:)
 

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Yeah, my local VW dealer; used to return, my car to me partially disassembled or damaged, pretty consistently. It happened so often; I wondered, if it was done on purpose! LOL! Kinda, like having a "kick me" sign; taped to the back, of my car when I took it in! :banghead: I fix; pretty much everything myself now, so if I break things (it's my fault). Ugh! Dealing with auto repairs; can be really, frustrating and then, finding a competent shop that you can trust is a whole 'nother headache! Trust, is HUGE; finding a good skilled shop/mechanics and being able to trust them with your car, is always a problem. :mad:
 
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