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Is the sensor corresponding to the blue curve in the second figure the lazy one? I see it only swaps between 0.1 and 0.5.
Malfunction Indicator Lamp on...
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I'm confused with the model # of Bosch sensors.
According to Bosch, only 17351 fits my 2001 2.0L AVH. This is confirmed also in this post.
But in another post, the author (who owns exactly the same model as mine, even engine type "K") used 17085. Apparently this is justified by this page saying "17085 Bosch Oxygen Sensor Superseded to 17351".
17351 is $122 on Amazon while 17085 is $79 only, which is a huge difference to me... I'm going to call Bosch tomorrow to check whether they are the same.
According to Bosch, only 17351 fits my 2001 2.0L AVH. This is confirmed also in this post.
But in another post, the author (who owns exactly the same model as mine, even engine type "K") used 17085. Apparently this is justified by this page saying "17085 Bosch Oxygen Sensor Superseded to 17351".
17351 is $122 on Amazon while 17085 is $79 only, which is a huge difference to me... I'm going to call Bosch tomorrow to check whether they are the same.
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I don't know 
This is why I want to check with them tomorrow
This is why I want to check with them tomorrow Feel free to shop these around. You may be able to find the more expensive one for around $100?
I use Amazon for a lot of my sensors, luckily most of them are only $50, so I do not even try to shop them as I usually will get them in 2 days.
I stick with Bosch for most of my O2 sensor applications as Bosch invented and developed the O2 sensor in the first place and has continued to improve it over the years. For most of my European and US cars Bosch is the sensor of choice for me.
I am guessing and hopeful your issue is an issue with the sensor wiring or some stay Voltage bleeding over from the O2 sensor heater power circuit. You might be able to pull the O2 sensor heater fuse and see if the Voltage drops back to the baseline 0.45 Volts.
Make sure you just worry about the Upstream sensor.
Also on the graph the rear O2 sensors do not have the wide swing which is normal.
These graphs are from 6 cylinders that have 2 banks of pre and post catalytic converter sensors so it is helpful to be able to make a comparison directly between sensors, far more obvious in a graphical nature.
I use Amazon for a lot of my sensors, luckily most of them are only $50, so I do not even try to shop them as I usually will get them in 2 days.
I stick with Bosch for most of my O2 sensor applications as Bosch invented and developed the O2 sensor in the first place and has continued to improve it over the years. For most of my European and US cars Bosch is the sensor of choice for me.
I am guessing and hopeful your issue is an issue with the sensor wiring or some stay Voltage bleeding over from the O2 sensor heater power circuit. You might be able to pull the O2 sensor heater fuse and see if the Voltage drops back to the baseline 0.45 Volts.
Make sure you just worry about the Upstream sensor.
Also on the graph the rear O2 sensors do not have the wide swing which is normal.
These graphs are from 6 cylinders that have 2 banks of pre and post catalytic converter sensors so it is helpful to be able to make a comparison directly between sensors, far more obvious in a graphical nature.
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Yes, I'm worrying about the Upstream sensor. Let me call Bosch first and decide whether to shop around. I searched on websites of Autozone, NAPA, and ECS, they all have this sensor but are listing it around 140-180... a bad feeling for shopping it around
Some people say sensors with large demand are likely to be cheaper on Amazon... seems that 17351 is an endangered specie...bad luck
Some people say sensors with large demand are likely to be cheaper on Amazon... seems that 17351 is an endangered specie...bad luck
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haha, inspired by you, I googled this sensor, partsgeek is indeed a deal. And I also find another one, the autoparts shop sells at $92. Is it a trustful seller?
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I just came across Advance Auto Parts having a discount of 20% for nearly ALL products. So I decided to buy the Bosch upstream O2 sensor (part no.: 17351) there. It was $103 after discount
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My recent update
Hi jfoj,
I managed to change the pre-O2 sensor myself after reading some posts here. My mechanic asked for $47 and I'm glad I saved this money so that I can eat Peking Duck on leesburg pike for two more times.
I described my procedures in this post. Hope it will help other novices.
Again, I want to say that for my 2001 Gas 2.0L AVH, the Bosch part number I stick to is 17351. It's working fine. Not sure whether 17085 works.
For sensor reading, it's still around 1.5 volts. And the fuel trim also didn't change. However, it's normal. I had been surprised for a while, but later I realized that the pre-O2 sensor is a wide band sensor which isn't like the conventional O2 sensor operating between 0.1V and 0.9V, but has a much wider operation range. (BTW, the post-cat O2 sensor is still the conventional one.) See the explanation by Bosch.
Nevertheless, I still believe this change is worthwhile for a 100k bug. Thank you for your advice.
Hi jfoj,
I managed to change the pre-O2 sensor myself after reading some posts here. My mechanic asked for $47 and I'm glad I saved this money so that I can eat Peking Duck on leesburg pike for two more times.
I described my procedures in this post. Hope it will help other novices.
Again, I want to say that for my 2001 Gas 2.0L AVH, the Bosch part number I stick to is 17351. It's working fine. Not sure whether 17085 works.
For sensor reading, it's still around 1.5 volts. And the fuel trim also didn't change. However, it's normal. I had been surprised for a while, but later I realized that the pre-O2 sensor is a wide band sensor which isn't like the conventional O2 sensor operating between 0.1V and 0.9V, but has a much wider operation range. (BTW, the post-cat O2 sensor is still the conventional one.) See the explanation by Bosch.
Nevertheless, I still believe this change is worthwhile for a 100k bug. Thank you for your advice.
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Noted two weeks ago with thanks now, smiley bug
jfoj, BTW, I've also had my timing belt and water pump changed. The old water pump is slightly... BROKEN! (See these two circles.) I bought a package from Blau parts and it's indeed a deal! Thanks for recommendation. My mechanic charged me $300 for everything. I guess--it's fairly good, isn't it?
I've also been tracking error codes, not yet any code has turned up after several IAD trips (80 miles for roundtrip). I'm happy with my bug!
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Glad you were able to resolve some of these issues yourself and save some money. The wideband sensors are a bit more expensive than the standard O2 sensors and it is hard to determine at times if the engine has standard or wideband sensors. Many times the scan tool will flag this as it may not show O2 sensors #1 due to the wideband being present.
O2 sensors are consumable and it is not a bad idea that you have updated/replaced them anyway at this point. Makes for a more reliable and more efficient vehicle over the long haul.
Glad you were able to find a shop to do the work for $300, this is a pretty reasonable price, along with money you saved on the Blauparts package, you should not have to worry about your timing belt and water pump for another 70-90k miles.Noted two weeks ago with thanks now, smiley bug
jfoj, BTW, I've also had my timing belt and water pump changed. The old water pump is slightly... BROKEN! (Let me upload the photo later.) I bought a package from Blau parts and it's indeed a deal! Thanks for recommendation. My mechanic charged me $300 for everything. I guess--it's fairly good, isn't it?
I've also been tracking error codes, not yet any code has turned up after several IAD trips (80 miles for roundtrip). I'm happy with my bug!
Assuming you have a manual transmission, you should be in good shape for a long time.
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Thanks. Yet mine is auto transmission... so which parts of the car do you think I should pay more attention to? Do you think transmission oil should be changed at current status (100k)?
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YES Way overdue really and I am amazed you haven't had any issues with it yet. Do change the transmission fluid ASAP!!! Should really be done every 50-60k miles anyway and in case of your transmission probably every 30-40k miles.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-VW-Lifetime-auto-transmission-fluid-(baloney!!!)
I wouldn't trust my Beetle on the mud that is in there now.
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Make sure you use the proper fluid and not some crap that your local Autozone or Pep Boys sells.
Volkswagen New Beetle 2.0 > Search > Transmission Fluid > ES#261800 Complete Automatic Transmission Service Kit - 01MSKKT
Volkswagen New Beetle 2.0 > Search > Transmission Fluid > ES#261800 Complete Automatic Transmission Service Kit - 01MSKKT
If you have an automatic, definitely plan on a fluid change soon, does not have to be performed yesterday like the timing belt and water pump, but as soon as you can do it when the weather breaks.
If you were able to change your O2 sensor, you should be able to change you trans fluid & filter.
How many speed is you automatic? It looks like you could have either a 4 speed auto or a 5 speed Tiptronic?
Again, I would check Blauparts as they have 2 kits depending on the transmission and their pricing looks good. If the trans fills via the bottom of the pan, do not worry, it is actually pretty easy with a hand pump and an adapter fitting. I used a fitting off a cheap Home Depot blow gun that fit the trans pan threads exactly.
Not sure if you know the full history of the car? The valve bodies in many of these transmission are known to eat themselves. Also depends if this car was a city car or a highway car. A city car will eat the valve body much faster than a highway car.
Will wait to hear what trans you have in your car.
If you were able to change your O2 sensor, you should be able to change you trans fluid & filter.
How many speed is you automatic? It looks like you could have either a 4 speed auto or a 5 speed Tiptronic?
Again, I would check Blauparts as they have 2 kits depending on the transmission and their pricing looks good. If the trans fills via the bottom of the pan, do not worry, it is actually pretty easy with a hand pump and an adapter fitting. I used a fitting off a cheap Home Depot blow gun that fit the trans pan threads exactly.
Not sure if you know the full history of the car? The valve bodies in many of these transmission are known to eat themselves. Also depends if this car was a city car or a highway car. A city car will eat the valve body much faster than a highway car.
Will wait to hear what trans you have in your car.
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105 Posts
Thanks both!
Mine is 4-speed automatic!
I believe this package fits: http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F2A1012-A
Mine is 4-speed automatic!
I believe this package fits: http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F2A1012-A
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That would work. However, I would order an extra Liter of fluid. Most of the time you will need closer to 3.5 Liters of Fluid for the O1M 4speed transmission. It's better to have the extra bottle on hand and not need it than needing it and not having it.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-New_Beetle--2.0/Search/Transmission_Fluid/ES261800/
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