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Melted Fusebox Findings and Fix

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fusebox
46K views 82 replies 13 participants last post by  roukyweal20  
connections

The fusebox on my 1.8L T new beetle recently melted and warranted a further look. This issue appears to be pretty common among this and other similar VW's so I've decided to share my findings and what I feel will be a long term solution.

I agree, the problem is excessive heat at the connection interface between the wire terminals and the fuse, not excessive current in the wire (remember the fuse didn't blow and the entire wire isn’t melted). I believe that the root of the problem is that the connection on the non-battery side of the high current (i.e. alternator and interior) fuse loosens slightly over time. This creates increased resistance, which tends to soften the black plastic housing base, reducing clamping pressure which causes even less contact, more resistance and more heat until everything spirals out of control. Poor design from the get go.

The battery side of each of the fuses tightens up with nuts that are all metal-to-metal clamping everything together and remain tight over time. This side never gets hot and never has a problem. The non-battery side of the fuses (towards the rear of the car) is different because they are all individual. Each individual bolt comes up from the bottom, and comes thru holes on the black plastic housing. There is a thin drawn sheet metal washer that is supposed to support the clamp load of the tightened nut. The problem is that this sheet metal washer is totally inadequate to support the clamp load and crushes easily under the clamp load of a tightened nut. (Clamp loads on a tightened M6 nut can be hundreds of pounds) A better design would have been to use a metal screw with a shoulder washer with some thickness that wouldn’t deform under load. I’ve looked at several different manufactures fuse blocks including Genuine VW parts and they all share the same poor design.

Here is what I did to solve the problem. Get a new fuse block. Remove the bottom black plastic flap to expose the back of all of the hex screw heads. You’ll need a small screwdriver to open all the snaps. All of the 10 M6 bolts will need to be increased in length on both sides of the fuse. I left the thin drawn sheet metal washers in place, but added an additional nut on the topside of the plastic so that the fuse now bottoms on the new nuts above the black plastic rather then crushing the drawn sheet metal washers. I used some Loctite on this nut and let it dry before final assembly. You’ll need to add a nut to both sides of the fuse to lift up both sides so that the fuse stays horizontal and isn’t cocked at an angle. The basic idea is that when the nuts are tightened up the top outside nuts clamp the fuses to the wire crimp terminals and then bottom on a new Loctited nuts instead of the flimsy sheet metal washers. All stresses remain in the metal, bolts/nuts/fuses and terminal ends and there’s no load clamping the sheet metal washer or the black plastic base. The nuts will stay tight, Consider adding a split washer in the stack-up to retain clamp pressure.

Pay attention to get the correct size fuses back onto to the correct wires! Different years and models use different fuse values.

Remember when you put the bolts back in they need to be rotationally aligned to fit into their black plastic hex receptacle in order be able to shut everything back together. Pay attention to this otherwise you will go thru multiple assembly cycles like me.

There’s no need to over tighten the nuts. They wont come loose over time. Overtorquing will just spin the hex head in the hex of the plastic base and ruin it making the base hard to close.

To verify everything’s working well once you start the car back up and the alternator is charging the battery with max current, the top of the rear bolt on the fuse block should remain pretty cool to the touch. If it’s too warm there will be a voltage drop between to B+ side of the fuse (front of car) and the eyelet terminal of the alternator wire. Even a .1-volt drop at this junction with 80 amps of charging current will generate 8 watts of heat in a very tiny area. The lower the voltage drops, the cooler and better! Check it over time until you are sure everything is steady state.

As for the three 30 amp flat bade fuses, I’ve also had the same problem with intermittent AC fans and or ABS brakes due too poor electrical contact. My diagnosis is similar. Its not excess current but poor connections caused but cheap terminals that cant support the current loads.
To solve the problem at one point, I out boarded a 30 amp Air Con fan fuse (got my solder iron out), which worked but wasn’t pretty. In my most recent iteration with a new start over fuse block I noted that the sheet metal fingers which contact the 3 fuses were rotated 90 degrees giving substantially better metal contact area with the fuse terminals and so I added silicone grease to the fuse blades and kept the aftermarket manufactures rotated design. If you have the original design (contacts all in the same plane) I suppose I would outboard all three fuses. Not pretty and a lot of soldering work. Make sure you use fuse holders (Amazon has 30 amp fuse holders) which can support the 30 amps…….Volkswagen didn’t. If they did ,we wouldn’t have the problem and there wouldn’t have been class action lawsuits.

(I don’t think you can determine which design you have unless you take it apart)

Good luck, hope my pictures help

Cheap sheet metal stamped washer, which is sandwich thru the black plastic base.
This is the root of the problem because it gets crushed.

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This is basically my fix to add nuts to the top of the sheet metal part. Note Loctite.

Nuts were also added to the battery (front) side to allow the fuses to remain horizontal.

All bolts were exchanged for longer pieces to allow for the extra nuts.
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The bolt hex heads need to be rotationally aligned to fit back in their respective plastic recess’ allowing re-snapping everything back together.

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30 Amp Fuses

My original fuse block I had to outboard the AC fan fuse because of poor contact. Note the orientation of the tangs contacting the fuse blades are all in the same flat plane. It’s a Poor design with minimal metal contact to the fuse blades, hence the need to outboard the fuse.

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Once I had the alternator fuse over-heating issues, I decided to start over with a new fuse block (modified as shown above), which happened to have improved 30 amp discrete fuse holder contacts. This design looked much better with more surface area of metal contact so I decided to keep it with no modifications, except to add silicone grease, however I do periodically do the same voltage drop test I did above. Remember voltage drops generate heat, causing melt down.

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I did this already a year ago on the 30A amp fuses. I bypass the fusebox sockets and hooked up a thicker wire with good solid connectors, used dielectric grease .......and guess what it still got hot and melted after about 4-5 months. I still believe it's too much current flow, then the connections get hot and develop a resistance because of that and keeps getting worst and worst until they melt. But it starts because of too much current flow, that's why a certain circuit or wire get's hot to begin with.
 
dielectric grease

1. DO NOT use dieletric grease, it is an INSULATOR!!!!!!!!

Dielectric grease is used IMPROPERLY ALL THE TIME. DO NOT USE IT ON ELECTRICAL CONTACTS. Its main purpose is for spark plug boots so they do not stick the the spark plug.

2. The problem is not too much current flow. If something gets hot, there is TOO MUCH resistance. Something is undersized and/or poor quality.

3. It is true that SOME connections will loosen up over time with thermal changes, often these thermal changes start out small, but depending on the material and how the material was hardened or annealed it may loosen up with heat cycles.

Here is what everyone needs to understand.

A fuse is to PROTECT THE WIRING of a circuit.

A fuse is typically over rated by 25%, so if you have a 10 Amp fuse for a circuit, it should draw no more than 7.5 Amps continuously.

I have seen MANY after market fuse holders that are not designed properly that will not handle the amount of current that may be put through the fuse holder and pigtail. Just because you can plug a 30 Amp fuse in a fuse holder does not mean the fuse holder and pigtail wiring will support the load that is put on the fuse holder and pigtail.

A properly designed and installed circuit/fuse holder will not get significantly warm when the rated amount of current is passed through the parts.

This is really not that difficult, it is just an issue of sub part equipment that is not capable of handling the constant high current that is being applied.

If "too much" current it being drawn or passed though the circuit, the fuse will blow.

Instead of talking about the current flow, MEASURE it. You will not find 35-40 Amps of current passing though the 30 Amp fuse for any length of time.

If the circuit it drawing a level of current that is too close to the fuse value then the item(s) that are being powered need to be closely inspected and replaced if needed.
it's not an insulator , it's mostly to keep moisture away from electrical contacts. everyone in the automotive industry uses it. I did measure the current before and when the fans would come on it was pulling 22-24 amps on that one wire alone that provides power to the FCM and fans. The power formula is voltage (14vdc when alternator is charging) times current 24 is 336 watts.....way too much wattage for those wires and so it get's hot.
 
dude

Trust me, I am being polite!
yea, you need to calm down dude we are trying to figure out why these cables are melting and based on years of experience people are posting their opinions and you act like you are the only knowledgeable person in this forum. Good luck to ya :p

@Bandi, good to have ya here in the forum. we can always use opinions from an experience VW tech.
 
Electic fans

It appears to me that when the electric fans get old they start dragging because of all the brush dust inside and in the process start using up too much current and get hot and then loose connection and battery corrosion sure doesn't help. Do you agree with that Mr. Master VW Mechanic Bandi?
I disassembled & repaired both of my fans and a whole lot of brush dust came out. You can feel the fans dragging when you spin by hand, clean and repair and them verify that they spin freely. Measure the current before and after folks so you can verify if you actually fixed something or not.
 
Brush dust, corrosion on the shaft (which sometimes splits the plastic in the hub of the fan blade) and bearing wear seem to be what kills the fans- the bearings sometimes wear to the point where the fan starts to hit the plastic housing- that can also be caused by an imbalanced fan, or at least that certainly accelerates the bearing wear. I've still got both original fans in my car after nearly 700,000 km, even basic maintenance like blasting the centers out with an air nozzle and spraying a bit of contact cleaner inside every summer seems to help.
I agree if the bearing is warned out and the fan is either imbalanced or dragging it'll cause the motor to work harder and in turn pull more current which means higher wattage. I also have the original fans still on my 03 1.8t with 209k miles
I had to use thicker wire on the fuse box connection though and it seems to be helping out so far so good, we'll see how it holds up this summer when the fans are on all the time cause you can't drive without A/C in Texas.
thanks for you help
 
electronics

Even if the fan(s) start to consume too much current, at some point the fuse should be the weak link in the chain, the wiring and connectors/connections should not be getting hot.

This is all foolishness thinking that meltdown should be expected.
dude? what school of electronics did you go to? The wires are getting hot because they were not designed to handle this amount of current/wattage and then causes the connections to get loose because of the heat. If you look at bassman12's pictures you can see that he modified the fans connections with soldered and thicker wires. :p
 

Attachments

fuse

on my schematic for the 2003 1.8t turbo it shows both fuses feed into the fan control module and The 180 also connects to the thermal switch mounted on the radiator bottom corner for the fans. The 164 fuse also feeds the third speed relay. I agree design deficiency
if only VW corp. would agree......LOL
 
current

The heavy duty ATO pigtailed fuse holder can withstand the amount of current the fans are drawing that's why it works better and does not get as hot. The thicker the wire the more current it can handle. Simple basic DC electronics. glad we were able to agree on something..LOL:D
 
Car sputtering

I installed a new battery and still had issues. I installed a new alternator and still have the issue. I just checked and there is 13.8V at alternator, but only 11.2V on the battery itself. I need to find out why it is not getting from alternator to battery.
Sounds to me like your problem could be the fuel pump relay. You'd be surprised how many components it powers up. I checked the schematic a while back and noticed that the window regulator ECU is effected by it and the doors latch mechanism also. The fuel pump relay also has a signal coming from the main ECU if you're involved in a crash. U might consider replacing the fuel pump relay.