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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I just installed a new ECS Tuning Stage 1 one piece Flywheel and Clutch. Install seemed to go good. But when I got it all back together and got into the car to start it the Clutch peddle was on the floor. I pulled the slave cylinder to make sure that it was installed correct and that the arm for the throw out bearing had not moved. It is still there on top.

Any ideas why I would not have a Clutch peddle?? When I tried to turn it over it acted as if the clutch was engaged. Cracked slow and hard. The only think that I can think of is that the bottom clip on the throw out bearing arm came UN-clipped:confused: while attempting to install. Any help would be great. I have to sleep on this now. and working a double **** tomorrow so I will not be able to get back to it till the weekend. Thanks in advance!
 

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5/23/10 <3
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Have you bled the clutch?
 

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I will be changing my clutch the week after XMas.

If the pivot arm did come unclipped (I'm skeptical), taking the transmission back off is your only option.

When you tightened down the pressure plate did you do it using a "Star Pattern"? Incorrect tightening sequence of the pressure plate will warp it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes I tightened them in a star pattern. (If the pressure plate did warp I would still have a clutch pedal and there would be drivability or shifting issues IMHO anyhow.) I have been wrong before. (Don't tell the wife that!!) After pulling the Slave cylnder I could feel the Throw out bearing arm is there and in place. There is no slop in it. As for bleeding the slave cylnder I would not thing that I had to due to not cracking the lines. (There is no fluid leaking from anywhere that I can see.) I read a few posts about Master cylnder failure acting something like this. But I can not believe that it would just go that quick with this timing. There were no issues with shifting or the clutch pedal prior to this. I replaced the clutch because it started slipping when I would go to accelerate quickly.
 

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Something is obviously in a bind, and clutches have so few moving parts, which are all internal and asking that you not kill :scared: the messenger, I suggest that you drop the transmission again and double check your work; unless you really think your problem is the slave or master cylinder.
 

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Are you using a handheld brake type bleeder to bleed the slave cylinder? You can try to reverse it to force fluid into the slave cylinder.
Also try to manually lift the clutch pedal and then push it back down while you bleed the slave cylinder to see if you can get any pressure.

I found this on another site where they ask VW Technicians:

"Ok we see this issue all the time the parts are not you will need a pressure bleeder because manually will not work we run into this issue all the time and we have to use a pressure bleeder to put enough pressure on the system . I hope this helps."



Read more: Volkswagen new beetle how do you bleed a 02 beetle clutch - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/vw-volkswagen/5am9x-volkswagen-new-beetle-bleed-02-beetle-clutch.html#ixzz1gd6Z6BXB
 

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Founds this post elsewhere here on the ORG: http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmission-talk/6911-how-do-you-bleed-clutch.html


Quote:
Clutch Pedal Problems on my Volvo S70

I remember the first time I endeavoured to flush the clutch fluid on my '99 Volvo S70. Volvo calls for this as routine maintenance, and mine was due. I figured "I've bled brakes before... the clutch should be the same principle." Wrong! I must have spent 5 or 6 hours trying to do this, expecting it to be a fifteen minute job with a vacuum bleeder. I could bleed and bleed and bleed all day long, and I did, but no matter what I did, I kept finding that the clutch pedal was to the floor and it would not return to it's starting position with pressure in the system. It had me wondering if perhaps I had damaged the slave cylinder during my attempts at fixing this. At various times during that futile effort, I was truly panicking, as this model year was the first for which Volvo incorporated the slave cylinder and throwout (release) bearing into a single assembly, and it would require dropping the tranny to fix it. That's big bucks or big labor, neither of which I wanted to expend.

After a full day of trying to deal with this "little" job, I gave up when I ran out of daylight. A little web surfing for "clutch bleeding tips" was very revealing. What I found was that many people have had the exact same problems when trying to bleed clutch hydraulics. I found web pages for Porsche, Audi, Volkswagen, Honda, Acura, Saab, Chrysler -- you name it; this is a very common problem. With a very easy solution.

Vacuum bleeders, such as Mityvac and others, remove the fluid that the system counts on to push back on the master cylinder piston, so you end up with a collapsed piston and a clutch pedal to the floor, and no pressure to return them to their starting point. The two man bleeding method often yields the same results. The only reliable method that I was able to find for bleeding clutch fluid is to use a pressure bleeder.

Volvo seems to have one additional peculiarity that I haven't found on any other clutch hydraulic system that I've ever worked on or heard about: if you use a pressure bleeder at anything less than about 20 psi -- or a vacuum bleeder at any pressure -- the master cylinder allows air into the lines. It's as though there's a spring-loaded air bleed valve within the master cylinder that's stays open at any lesser pressure, forcing more air into the system than fluid, and resulting in the collapsed pedal that gave me all the trouble that I described earlier. It was very strange, but the cause and the solution are both repeatable: use low-pressure or vacuum and you'll get no clutch pedal; use higher pressure, and you'll have a pedal. Even after flushing at higher pressure, the pedal is never where it should be (or as firm as it should be) until after about a block of driving, but at least I've found the secret to bleeding this thing. I hope this tip saves you some time!
 

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Nice research IndyTom, I do hope your suggestions work for the OP.

I will add that there is no mention of any pressure or vacuum assist noted in the Bentley DVD for bleeding the slave cylinder.
 

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Nice research IndyTom, I do hope your suggestions work for the OP.

I will add that there is no mention of any pressure or vacuum assist noted in the Bentley DVD for bleeding the slave cylinder.
Thanks D2Beetle. I am looking forward to your Excellent Photo DIY when you are changing your clutch. I think I am about due for one (162k miles and counting on the original clutch.)

Regarding the pressurised Bleeder, I have found several notations on different forums that all refer to using a pressure bleeder. Then some say they didn't need it. So I guess it depends on how much air is in the system? I really don't know. Hopefully your install will go flawlessly and will give me confidence in doing my own clutch sometime in the spring ;)

I hope the OP will report back and let us know if the pressurized bleeder helped or not. I am just curious now.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
D2Beetle Please don't think that I was trying to kill the messenger. I am just trying to rationalize or clarify what I am thinking. I am always open to others opinions and looking for help. Otherwise I would not post on here or anywhere else. But I also know from experience to ask more questions give my opinion and hear from others as well.

I have not had time to try any of this yet as I am working double shifts till tomorrow night. But I will give the bleeding a shot. Any ideas on which Harbor Freight Bleeder to try? I have done many clutches on Jeeps, Dodges and a few other makes and have never run into an issue like this before. That is why I am asking how air gets into a what I thought was a closed system unless you crack a line. From reading here I guess it is possible but still does not make since to me.

Lastly I was looking at a Camera Scope (again Harbor Freight) to look through the inspection ports on the bell Housing (there is one with a rubber plug directly in front of the Slave cylinder plunger) to see if everything looks right in there.

Again sorry if I came off wrong in my response and thanks to all three of you for the responses back.
 

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D2Beetle Please don't think that I was trying to kill the messenger. I am just trying to rationalize or clarify what I am thinking. I am always open to others opinions and looking for help. Otherwise I would not post on here or anywhere else. But I also know from experience to ask more questions give my opinion and hear from others as well.

I have not had time to try any of this yet as I am working double shifts till tomorrow night. But I will give the bleeding a shot. Any ideas on which Harbor Freight Bleeder to try? I have done many clutches on Jeeps, Dodges and a few other makes and have never run into an issue like this before. That is why I am asking how air gets into a what I thought was a closed system unless you crack a line. From reading here I guess it is possible but still does not make since to me.

Lastly I was looking at a Camera Scope (again Harbor Freight) to look through the inspection ports on the bell Housing (there is one with a rubber plug directly in front of the Slave cylinder plunger) to see if everything looks right in there.

Again sorry if I came off wrong in my response and thanks to all three of you for the responses back.
Here is a link to a $6.00 homemade bleeder :
Pressure Bleeder

This is the one that a lot of people on the Vortex are using:
0100 European Brake Bleeder Kit | BrakeBleeders.com
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well finely got back out the Garage this afternoon. Stopped and picked up a pump sprayer on the way home to convert to a reverse Pressure Bleeder. We got out to the garage and set the Shifter linkage first. While I was doing that I was playing with the Clutch pedal. After about the 3rd time in the car I notice the Clutch pedal had popped back up. I started pumping it at that point and after about a dozen pumps I had a clutch and could run through the gears. I hooked everything up and took it for a quick ride. The pedal started getting soft again. I got back in the garage and hooked up my home made pressure bleeder and that worked great!! Thanks for that suggestion!! I capped everything back up and the clutch pedal felt like new again.

What I don't understand is the other day in the garage I must have played with that clutch pedal for 20 minutes and nothing. Now today it came back up rather quickly. It took a while before it built enough pressure to work but it sure was not 5 minutes.

As for the new Clutch it is great I have not beat on it because I want to give it 500 miles to make sure it is broke it good before I tromp on it. That should be in 2 weeks.

Again thanks for all your help!!!
 

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Well finely got back out the Garage this afternoon. Stopped and picked up a pump sprayer on the way home to convert to a reverse Pressure Bleeder. We got out to the garage and set the Shifter linkage first. While I was doing that I was playing with the Clutch pedal. After about the 3rd time in the car I notice the Clutch pedal had popped back up. I started pumping it at that point and after about a dozen pumps I had a clutch and could run through the gears. I hooked everything up and took it for a quick ride. The pedal started getting soft again. I got back in the garage and hooked up my home made pressure bleeder and that worked great!! Thanks for that suggestion!! I capped everything back up and the clutch pedal felt like new again.

What I don't understand is the other day in the garage I must have played with that clutch pedal for 20 minutes and nothing. Now today it came back up rather quickly. It took a while before it built enough pressure to work but it sure was not 5 minutes.

As for the new Clutch it is great I have not beat on it because I want to give it 500 miles to make sure it is broke it good before I tromp on it. That should be in 2 weeks.

Again thanks for all your help!!!
:thewave:

Alright! You got 'er done. :clap: I am glad you didn't have to take all that stuff apart again. I was thinking going with the Single Mass Flywheel when I swap my clutch out. Did you get the lightened Flywheel 15/16 lbs or one closer to stock weight? Just wondered about possible clutch chatter with the Single Mass Flywheel.
Anyway, enjoy your weekend and CONGRATS! :bigthumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks again IndyTom!! and D2Beetle!! I went with the 14.5lb Flywheel. When it was in the Garage idling I could here it chattering nothing to loud but I could hear it. When driving around I did not notice it at all. When I went to the Pull up ATM I did notice it a little again but not to much nothing that I think will bother me. I think that I had actually about 7 hours into it. The only thing that I would do different is I would pull the axles first and then pull the hubs or what ever they are called that connects the axle to the Trans. Removing these while you can still put the car in gear would make it much easier to get the trans in and out. They seem to catch on everything on the way out and on the way in again. Also they guy that I talked to from ECSTuning said that the kit came with evrything needed. I then spacificaly asked about the stretch bolts for the trans and bell housing and he said "Included" So I did not order the Stretch Bolt Kit. So I now ordered one and will have to replace the bolts once they get here.

Good luck and hope yours goes smoother then mine did. LOL Again it was not to bad at all. Make sure you have a fender engine mount, 12 point box end wrench, and a low profile Trans lift. Mine was to tall to get the trans out from under the car or to use to lift it so I had to put it back in by hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
P.S. Next step is to get put in a lift with New shocks and struts for a 4" total lift. I am an avid hunter and it is a lot cheaper to take the Bug then the Dodge Dully. Just can not take it when I go after big game! An Elk wont fit!! LOL
 

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P.S. Next step is to get put in a lift with New shocks and struts for a 4" total lift. I am an avid hunter and it is a lot cheaper to take the Bug then the Dodge Dully. Just can not take it when I go after big game! An Elk wont fit!! LOL
That's why you get a Roof Rack :D
 
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