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Discussion Starter #1
This is a 2001 Jetta 2.0L build date 11/2000.

Problem : Car bogged down & stalled, towed to mechanic who pulled codes
P0730, P0171. Tranny trips P0730 the no fuel I'm guessing tripped the P0171.

Mechanic checked batt & replaced, car started & he said he ran it for 3 hrs no problems but on a rescan he picked up P0606 the dreaded ECU internal memory fault.

Car was driven from shop to home with no problems, next morning no start, cranks over no start.

Car is in New Hampshire & I'm in New jersey. Went up there to trouble shoot it with a Ross-Tech VAGCom cable & computer read out at end of post.

What I found was no +V at fuel pump or fuel pump fuse. Replaced fuel pump relay with 1 from auto zone, installed , car started then stalled. Back to no start.

I have the chilton shop manual & traced the circut back from the fusable link that feeds the fuel pump relay term 30. I see from the schamtic that between fusable link & fuel pump relay is the Load limiting relay. Not sure if that feed just passes thru the LLR or that LLR is part of the fuel pump circut.

Removed the fuse box on side of dash to see if I had any wire burnt or loose, also original relay prongs #30 & #87 looked burned ( will open relay to see if damaged ) those prongs are the switched feed to power the pump, #30 is +V in #87 is switched +V to fuse for fuel pump.

I have sent ECU out to a place in Fla for rebuild ($250 ) my questions for the group is anyone have similar problem ? Anyone repair / replace ECU with similar problem ?

Could fuel pump be culprit? I'm figuring that if it was drawing too much current the 15 amp fuse would blow, fusable link to fuel pump relay is 50 amps IIRC.

below is VAGCOM readout shows 2 fauls with pump circut.

My concern is what caused the ECU problem. Car ran for me about 3 years no problem except doddgy O1m tranny with the implausabe signal codes. 3 flushes & 2 filter changes & still occasional torque converter clutch disengaging when you take foot off gas, but getting 25 mpg and strong running engine. New coil, plugs , wires etc over last 3 yrs.

Thanks in advance for any input into the problem.

Bob.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Tuesday,18,July,2017,13:13:09:49413
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 17.1.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20170320 DS267.7
Ross-Tech: Home


Mileage: 240440km-149402mi Repair Order: bow 01



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
75 76

Mileage: 240440km-149402miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AVH.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 032 BQ
Component: 2.0l R4/2V G *3657
Coding: 00003
Shop #: WSC 00126
VCID: 6EDDC4C72A5600310B-515A

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01M-927-733.lbl
Part No: 01M 927 733 JF
Component: AG4 Getriebe 01M 4833
Coding: 00011
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 7DFFF38B77306BA982-0962

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 C
Component: ABS FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0004097
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2A5508D7863E2C1197-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 F
Component: 04 AIRBAG VW6 0202 0003
Coding: 12340
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 3A753897269E9C91E7-515A

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

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Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487-A.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487 B
Component: Lenkradelektronik 0001
Coding: 00008
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 30611ABFF0E256C159-5266

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 905 K
Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V52
Coding: 07232
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 2F6319C3EDDC493940-515A

Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0Y2844035
IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0Y2844035

2 Faults Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01176 - Key
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

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Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00007
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 70E1DABF306216C119-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
Component: 61 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001
Coding: 04097
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 060D9C6722E62871D3-4B18

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
Component: 61 T?rsteuerger. FS0002r

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
Component: 61 T?rsteuerger. BF0002r

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811C
Component: 61 T?rsteuerger. HL0002r

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812C
Component: 61 T?rsteuerger. HR0002r

1 Fault Found:
00913 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Right Driver (E81)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
Part No: 1J0 035 180 D
Component: RADIO 3CP 0002
Coding: 02401
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 2041EAFFA002E641C9-4B32

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:29)--------------------------
 

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Good question; I don't know but... ."Replaced fuel pump relay with 1 from autozone" is a classic red flag, we see problems with aftermarket cheap relays. I recommend going genuine VW on this part; many aftermarket relays, don't have all the onboard components inside them and replacement with a aftermarket FPR, will result in a no start condition. We have seen this problem; over, over and over again. People have a no start or no power at the fuel pump and replacement with a aftermarket FPR, kills the power to the fuel pump (definitely confusing; as you assume, the new relay will fix the problem but just makes things worse).

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/00771

The fact you are getting error codes related to the fuel gauge sending unit; is interesting, in the sense that the fuel level gauge could potentially be off (you could be out of gas; when you think you are full or have/had adequate fuel supply) and also, this could be pointing towards potential electrical problems with the fuel pump assembly (which the sending unit is a part of the assembly). Once you regain power at the fuel pump; I could be checking the fuel pump for correct operation and fuel pressure to spec.

Code definitions from Ross Tech: (you may already have looked these up?):

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16555/P0171/000369

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17114/P0730/001840

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16990/P0606/001542

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01176

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/00913

Now, taking into consideration; all the codes you have collected since the no start and stalling issues you are experiencing, this brings up a lot of open questions as to what caused the problems to begin with and when/what was original source of the "bogged down & stalled" issues.

Many things could have caused the problem (which came first the "chicken or the egg"?: a open question): bad/low battery, immobilizer kicking on, fuel pump/power failing and ecu failure (all could cause a problem that could result in the issues you experienced). More troubleshooting and diagnostics; would seem to be in order, once you get your repaired ecu back and get a genuine vw fuel pump relay, so you have reliable power to the fuel pump.

You have your diagnostics work cut out for you; let us know, how things progress and I hope you can get the car, back on the road soon. Thanks! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The P0171 probably set when the SAI pump hose broke , don't know why it wasn't cleared out when the mechanic cleared trouble codes. Perhaps only had generic code reader.

The P0730 is the problematic O1M tranny torque converter clutch cutting in & out. learned to live with it.

Yea nothings easy , just don't want to plug that refurbed ECU in just to watch it fry again.

I know 1 key fob is dead which is the 1 we used.

The relay we got was the updated 7 pin model even had print out explaining compliance with VW design change ( combinded 2 pins ) 1 pin saved per car adds up.

Thank you for the input & advice. Will keep you updated, it well be a couple of weeks before I get back up there.

Anyone have their ECU's repaired ? What where the problems they found ? Is there a common circut that fails ?
 

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relay

Not sure if the schematic for the jetta would be the same as our beetles but on my 03 the V signal starts at the ignition switch and go's through the fuse before going to the relay and then to the fuel pump. Try spraying some starter fluid into the intake manifold after the throttle valve.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks I'm thinking the fuel / ignition systems on same engines are similar. Reading thru posts I noted the ignition switch issues going to check if backup lights work with switch on.

I was thinking that the fuel pump relay ( when signaled from ECU ) trips the relay to power fuel pump. +V out of relay through fuse to pump.

Is there anyone out there who can explain the circut ?

Little late for the starter fluid, ECU getting repaired as we speak.

Thanks fro the reply.
 

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fuel pump

thanks I'm thinking the fuel / ignition systems on same engines are similar. Reading thru posts I noted the ignition switch issues going to check if backup lights work with switch on.

I was thinking that the fuel pump relay ( when signaled from ECU ) trips the relay to power fuel pump. +V out of relay through fuse to pump.

Is there anyone out there who can explain the circut ?

Little late for the starter fluid, ECU getting repaired as we speak.

Thanks fro the reply.
I just did explain the schematic, well for the beetle I'm not sure if it's the same for the jetta. On the beetle the signal does not come from the ECU but the ecu knows the fuel pump is getting power.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
update: Talked to the Co. that is refurbing the ECU, seems it had a major short to ground on the circuit board containg the main processor. The unit can not be fixed because main processor is shot. They can supply a rebuilt unit for $400 life time warranty blah blah blah...

The guy says this is a common failure in this unit but Im not so sure. I asked him if this was caused by an external event or was it just an internal short with the problem confined to the ECU itself. Told me internal cause.

he also mentioned that the unit would need to be flashed to match the car, Ive seen a thread on this I think but anyone know off hand if this can be accomplished with the Ross-Tech cable & software or will i have to drag it into a VW dealer ? He mentioned something about a VW subscription to access the data needed.

Thanks for your help.

Bob...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm going to continue this on the ECU reprogram/ swap thread because that is where I'm at at this point.

Thanks for your help.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I wound up getting a refurbished ECM for $400. 7 hr trip to work on the car and this is where I'm at :

Did some troubleshooting on fuel pump wires & circuit getting the following results.

fuel pump connector pin 1 & 4 has continuity when jumperd with meter.

reading 25 ohms on FP connector between pins 1 & 2.(pump)

showing 140 ohms between pins 2 & 3 on fuel pump.(sending unit)

from output of fuse # 28 (fuel pump) to fuel pump harness connector
pin #1, continuity, & no short to ground.

with fuse #28 installed I have continuity to ground.

tap before fuse #28 feeds fuses #'s 34 & 43 (engine control elements)

From +V fuse #28 there is continuity with ground.

with fuel pump connector installed on pump showing continuity to ground from +V side of fuse #28 to ground.

terminal #87 on fuel pump relay socket shows continuity to ground

terminal #30 of fuel pump relay also shows continuity to ground.
this is with relay removed.

At this point I'm pulling the plug. Going to sell the ECM junk the car.

Thanks for the help.
 

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I am looking for some advice I currently own a 2000 VW beetle that has giving me problems since I purchased it two years ago. My first mistake was purchasing the car in Mexico the very next day the check engine light came on and the catalytic converter had gone out on the car. I have since then fix that but the coolant system as a whole Nother story recently we just found the biggest leak and were able to seal it up with the hose component that attaches to the engine so I replace the ignition coil in the car about two weeks ago and ever since then it drove OK for one day and then after I was getting flashing check engine and it was rough idling and bucking it hasn’t done that so far but it just had its fuel pump replaced two days ago and the relay switch the car drove fine for the two days after that then this morning I went to take my car out and I downshifted to second gear to slow down as I went back to accelerate the car would not accelerate and I try to put it into first gear to see if maybe that would work and it would not accelerate and it died in the middle of a busy street luckily there was a cop there to direct traffic away from me and help me push it to a safer position. I am wondering if anyone else has had issues like this and what the possible issues can be I did get the car scan for some codes from AutoZone and I have multiple misfires And the other codes that are showing up RP 0440 evaporation emission system P0506 idle air rpm lower than normal PT 1256 ECT sensor open or short to b positiveI did just recently replaced the ECT sensor and I did the ignition coil with all new wires and plugs I don’t think that is the reason that the car is not accelerating and now will not turn back on it does crank over but it will not pump I listened and I hear the fuel pump running and I hear the relay switch running can anyone give me any advice I do not plan on keeping this car much longer but I need some help in order to get to work for the next few weeks I’ve tried to love this car for 2 years and after $1500 worth of new parts I can’t keep investing into an 18 year old car :’(
 

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Whew, OK... you have replaced ALLOT of parts and I would recommend, starting a proper troubleshooting process and stop throwing parts at the problem(s). One thing to keep in mind; DO NOT, assume, that any of these "new" parts, are working correctly but assume, that ANY parts could be defective or DOA, right out of the box. With that in mind; proceed to start a process of elimination and keep a fresh perspective without any assumptions. Remain open to any and all possible causes for the problems you are having.

Parts replaced?:

catalytic converter

coil pack:

what brand? We recommend high quality oem parts: eldor, bosch, vw, etc

coolant temp sensor: what brand?

spark plugs: what brand? " " oem NGK or Bosch

spark plug wires:

what brand? " " oem VW, Bremi, NGK, ND or Bosch

fuel pump:

what brand? " " very important to get a oem pump: we have found ONLY oem Bosch or VDO branded pumps, to work correctly and reliably long term. Right out of the box; we have found aftermarket pumps, to not provide full fuel pump pressure needed, for the engine to work correctly and this causes misfires, poor power and in worst case scenarios, the car can be undrivable.

fuel pump relay:

what brand? DO NOT use aftermarket relays; many of them, DO NOT have all the parts inside them, needing to work correctly and cause starting problems, when replacing the stock part. Recommend oem or genuine VW parts for fuel pump relays.

The quality of parts replaced is CRUCIAL; we have seen (in particular), poor quality aftermarket, coil packs, fuel pumps, relays and other parts, cause all kinds of problems, as they just cannot perform, as they need to. We recommend in these cases; to buy high quality OEM or genuine VW parts, these work better and do not prematurely fail or not end up working, at the performance level they need to.

You seem to be struggling with misfires and a poor running condition; typically, these break down into fuel delivery or ignition problems.
 

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When starting a troubleshooting process; I always like to start with a "fresh" scan, for trouble codes and see what has come up. These codes can give you clues; as to what is going on.

Your current codes; both seem to indicate, you have a vacuum leak in the engine and/or the evap system.

P0506 VOLKSWAGEN - Idle Air Control System RPM Lower Than Expected

Large vacuum leak on engine

Possible causes

Dirty throttle body Electronic throttle control actuator

misadjusted or damaged Faulty Electric throttle control actuator

Intake air leak

Poor electrical connection to the Intake Air Control (IAC) valve

Read more: https://www.engine-codes.com/p0506_volkswagen.html

16824/P0440/001088 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Malfunction

Possible Symptoms

Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) active

Possible Causes

Evaporative Emission (EVAP) System leaking
Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Regulator Valve (N80) faulty
Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Solenoid Valve (N115) faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) System Sealing
Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Regulator Valve (N80)
Check Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Solenoid Valve (N115)

A vacuum leak in the engine or in the evap system; could cause these codes to be thrown. It very common; for some of the various hoses on the engine, to be disconnected, broken or deteriorated to the point, they are leaking. A visual inspection of the engine and a careful listening of a "hissing" sound, can be a way to find any possible leaks. A mechanics stethoscope or even; a hose, put to your ear; is a way, to isolate the sounds of the engine and find any specific hissing sound, indicating a leak.

Another possibility, is your have lost your throttle body settings or it is really dirty, causing a rough idle, hard starting and poor acceleration. This can be resolved; by thoroughly cleaning the throttle body and running a throttle body alignment, to restore the lost settings.

For the evap system leaks; there can be a leak anywhere in the system. The evap system; takes the fumes from the gas tank and brings them into the engine, to be burned, so the atmosphere is not polluted with it. Any hoses or damage to the evap system; can cause a leak or the most common failure, is the purge valve malfunctions and this results, in the check engine light coming on and throwing a code. The "N80" purge valve is located in the engine compartment and can be replaced; if it is defective.

So, we can discuss a bunch of different possible causes for your current situation and how to test, confirm things are working correctly.

However, I guess we should STOP, for a moment and ask you some basic questions.

Do you want to fix the car yourself or take it to a professional shop and have them do the repairs? If you want to repair the car yourself; will only you be doing the repairs or do you have possible friends or family to help you out, in this repair process?

What is the current state of the car; will it turn over, will it start/run or is it totally dead, not drivabile at this point?

Let us know; what is currently going on, how you want to proceed with repairing your car and we can go from there. Thanks! :)
 

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I am no pro but IIRC the relay powers the pump/fuse. That's where I'd start. Definitely OEM only. I don't know which one but you should be able to switch one of the existing relays to test. Hopefully someone will confirm.
 
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