NewBeetle.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am totally in shock. I just got off the phone with the VW dealership. My Beetle isn't a Beetle. It's a freakin' PASSAT!!! Someone put a 1.8L turbo Passat engine in it and did not report it, so it did not show up on the Carfax report.

I bought the car as-is with no warranty a week ago from a small lot, so returning it is not an option. Should I be OK with a 1.8L Passat engine or should I just sell the car?
 

·
Probably MIA
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
Its essentially the same engine, it would have different manifolds, connections and stuff like that but that would all transfer over from the original engine.

If the work was done correctly there is nothing to worry about.

Sent from my DROID2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks DZLBUG. Well, I talked to the guy who owns the small car lot where I bought it. He is kinda in the same boat because he could not have known that the engine had been replaced because the diagnostic port had been removed when an aftermarket stereo was put in. I took it to the dealer had them install a new diagnostic port and that was how we discovered that the engine is not original. Also the car needs a mass airflow sensor and a couple of pins and hoses.

I told the dealer that in order for him to sell the car legally in the state of California, an accurate odometer reading has to be disclosed and with a replaced engine there is no way to do that. I did my homework before I called and he is willing to work with me on this.

The bigger issue is that we don't know how many miles are on the engine. I am guessing that it likely would have LESS miles on it than the car. If you blew the engine and were replacing it, you would put in an engine that was either a rebuild or a used engine with less miles. Am I correct in this line of thinking? Is there any way that this could be a (dare I say it) a good thing?

So I have several choices. I can take it back and they will fix the mass airflow sensor. I can pick a different car off their lot they sell auctioned cars and this was the only Beetle, or they will take the car back. My old car was sold off so I'm out a car but could drive Hubby's to work for a few days while I find another car.I'm OK with that.

All that said, I do like this car very much. It drives great, handles beautifully and the engine feels strong and powerful. It climbs the mountain roads where I live like nobody's business. I have a lot of thinking to do tonight.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,714 Posts
I say, make sure it's recorded, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But, get something in writing that if there is a problem in the future, that may be related to the replacement, it should be covered.

A 1.8t ia a 1.8t. Turbo baby! :p
 

·
Kaylee Bug
Joined
·
366 Posts
I was gonna say the same thing. It is still a VW 1.8T. Same engine.

I say, make sure it's recorded, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But, get something in writing that if there is a problem in the future, that may be related to the replacement, it should be covered.

A 1.8t ia a 1.8t. Turbo baby! :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks all. Hubby and I had a long talk about what to do last night and we both really like the car. I called the lot I bought it from and he's willing to replace the mass airflow sensor that is causing the check engine light to come on and is giving me a loaner car to drive while the work is done.
 

·
5/23/10 <3
Joined
·
10,918 Posts
The 1.8T Passat engine I believe has more HP than the one in most NBs.

Also, the MAF replacement shouldn't require you needing a loaner. Its super easy to access and should take no time to replace from what I understand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,753 Posts
OMG, but not unbelievable at all. A lesson to all - Carfax should only be considered accurate for chain of ownership, absolutely nothing else. After all, why would someone who replaces and engine stigmatize their car by reporting this to Carfax or any other similar service, and not even sure how one would go about doing this if they wanted to. Ditto, for reporting an accident that contained no insurance claim or police report, and suspect only the insurance company would report anyway, not the Poilice Dept or BMV, not their function.

Tough call here, but I would consider that some modder, who didn't even think an OBDII port was important, owned the car. Tunes were more important! (perhaps why the engine had to be replaced!) As an example, when I found a "monster cable" under the carpet in the Camaro Z28 I own, and bought sight unseen off eBay, I should have run, not walked, away from the deal.

The used car dealer involved is probably offering you a laoner because many "corner" lots don't have facilities on site to do this work and they have to outsource it.

Sorry for your bad experience, hope you make the right choice for you.

M.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks everyone. All the comments have really helped. I am going to my good ol' standby Bugformance today (they did all the work on my '67) to talk about what the mass airflow sensor would cost me to do there, rather than putting the car back into the hands of the lot guy. He said something on the phone that really sent up all kinds of alarm bells for me. He said

"All you care about is that the check engine light is off, right?"

I said "No, what I care about is that the problem causing the check engine light is repaired."

He is saying he wants his mechanic to check it that it could be all kinds of other things and not the mass airflow sensor, which also sends up red flags for me because we ran the diagnostic already at the dealership.

I am beginning to think that I don't want to put it back into the hands of the lot guy again, I'm likely to end up with my check engine light disconnected, (Although I could see that at start-up) reset or God knows what else. I have reason not to trust what he is saying, he tells me the light never came on for him, and that he drove it more than 500 miles, and yet when I took it to a local mechanic the first time we tried to run the diagnostic, the first thing he said was "who reset your check engine light? They forgot to tighten down the battery cable" ...Busted.

The dealership wants $500 for the mass airflow sensor install, plus a couple of hoses at another $500 for a total of just over $1,000 which I think is probably way out of line if the MAS is a quick and easy fix.

Bugformance has always been great to work with, I know and trust them to be straight-up with me on this and for the cost to be fair and reasonable. I'm thinking it may be worthwhile just to take control of the situation and get it fixed. I'll report back later today.
 

·
5/23/10 <3
Joined
·
10,918 Posts
Just a quick glance on some online parts places...MAF should be less than $100 for the part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the price info. I should have a much more reasonable cost from Bugformance.

One additional comment, I agree this is a great example of what Carfax can and cannot tell a buyer. What I do have in my favor is that because the seller did not disclose an accurate odometer reading I do have legal recourse in California, this would vary from state to state.

It would be worse if I intended to drive the car a while and resell it. In my situation with the daily mountain commute it is not realistic. We buy used cars, treat them as well as we can and drive them until they drop.

Stay tuned, more Egglatina drama as it unfolds later today.:rolleyes:
 

·
5/23/10 <3
Joined
·
10,918 Posts
Good luck. Prices do seem to be a little higher for some of the Passat engines, but not knowing what engine code it is, its hard to say.

A lot of times when an engine blows (my guess would be the PO lost their timing belt and trashed the engine) a replacement is put in. I've certainly heard of other mk4 1.8T engines put into our cars (Golf, Jetta) but not sure I've heard of a Passat motor put in. So its not super surprising that there is a different engine in there. Hopefully you can get a good resolution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
I have an APH engine in Elmo and a AWU in Cookie both are 1.8T NB's with 150bhp Find out which engine is in there (engine code) and which was there originally then you will always know what parts you need. I would guess it was an APH originally as Elmo is also a US 2000 GLX :)

Kate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Hang on tight V-dubbers, it looks like this is gonna be a bumpy ride.

I had a long talk with the owner of Bugformance who I got to know quite well for the years that I had the '67. I learned something- You can't do a smog check on a Beetle that has no diagnostic hook-up. No way around it and the car was sold to me as having passed smog. That alone is a clear-cut case of fraud and it was an illegal sale.

So here is my plan of action. I'll take the car to the lot guy, and let him have a chance to make good on all of this with the understanding that I will be taking the car straight to my mechanic to get scanned.

If it turns out that anything has been jury-rigged like disconnecting the light, can't pass smog etc., then it is time to call in the Bureau of Automotive Repair. I will advise him of this also in advance.

The owner of Bugformance told me this could get really ugly and messy and take a lot of time, but this is exactly what these organizations are for, to keep dealers honest and if I don't do anything he is going to keep on doing this to other people.
 

·
5/23/10 <3
Joined
·
10,918 Posts
Are they sure the port is entirely gone and not just lost in the dash somewhere? That happened to my husband when he got his Accord, and I know my port's tabs have broken off. I leave it hanging out of the dash, but it could get pushed into the dash and be hard to find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Yes, it was there but non-operational. When I took it to the first mechanic they tried to scan it and were unable to do so. That mechanic said that I needed to take it to the dealer and that maybe it needed to be flashed, that the car's onboard computer could not communicate with the scanning equipment. So that was when I took it to the dealer and the dealer had to install a new hook-up. No question about it I'm afraid!
 

·
Boogety Boogety
Joined
·
413 Posts
I know you like the car... but... I smell ongoing trouble(s) from way over here. Go get your money back, because this car will cause you untold grief going forward, forever. If it's not one thing, it will be another. Punt and find yourself another, less-problematic ride from a dealer you can trust... good luck!
 

·
5/23/10 <3
Joined
·
10,918 Posts
I know there can be some issues with the OBDII port functionality and aftermarket radios. I'd be the wiring isn't set up right, which is why the code readers are having a hard time with it. I believe it has something to do with the K line. If you search here, there should be information on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The dealership installed a brand new K-line, the existing one was not fuctional when I bought the car. Today I took it back to the lot, we hooked up the scanner and got the error. The parts to repair it come in on Tuesday and I told him straight up that when I take the car I'm driving it straight to my mechanic to be scanned and smog checked.

One interesting thing, after we did the scan the check engine light went off for the first time since it went on, and so far has stayed off. I am betting it will kick back on between now and Tuesday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I should add the scan is showing error P0411 (Secondary Air
Injection Incorrect Upstream Flow Detected). Looking at a couple of Passat forums this doesn't look like it is going to be the end of the world, but it looks like it might be a little tricky to identify which hoses and such to replace.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top