NewBeetle.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Does anybody know if this is indicitive of a possible sensor problem or more likely a clogged inlet strainer problem... and yes Ive been using 10W40 dino oil and changing every 5 k with no problems .....until now. 218000 km on odometer / dont have an oil pressure gauge to check actual pressure / looking for easiest and cheapest solution. What's easier changing oil pressure sensor or dropping pan and checking strainer ? and remember its quite cold outside up here in Canada and I have to do it all in the driveway. What is the easiest way to get the sensor out ? doesnt seem to be much space to work on it. Any advice other than to take it to a mechanic ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Given you live in Canada, I would say probably that the oil pickup is clog/restricted.

The oil pressure switch is probably easier to change, but here is what I would do knowing what I know after dealing with my 1.8t with a restricted pickup.

First verify your engine operating temperature. 205F at idle, you will need an OBDII scan tool to read the temp. You can put something together for $30, see the link below in my signature.

Then I would put a can of SeaFoam or STP Multipurpose Motor Treatment in the crankcase and try to drive the car very easily for at least 500-1000 miles, then see how things are going.

Then the next time you change oil, suggest you put Mobil 1 0W40 European Car Formula and add a can of SeaFoam or STP for the length of the oil change. I really do not like the Mobil 1, but it is very thin and it will be needed to get through the restricted oil pick up. Make sure you keep a check on the oil level at every other fuel fill up as the 0W40 seems to get consumed in some cars quickly.

Here is the deal, I had the problem with the oil pick up and ended up running SeaFoam in my crankcase AFTER I changed the oil pickup more by accident, long story, buy had NO negative side effects, leaks or any other problems.

See pictures of oil pick up that came out of my car at 70k miles, I am the original owner and I used synthetic oil and changed it regularly, but due to a bad thermostat that never triggered a CEL the engine ran too cool, this is what causes the oil to contaminate too quickly.

Then I would change over an use Castrol Edge 5W40 for normal use
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks. I have an INNOVA OBD2 Scan reader / doesnt seem to provide temperature data. I did a 5 minute Kleen Flo Engine flush / changed the filter and oil with Quaker State 10W40 with no change. Havent driven the car more than 5 miles since the oil light started coming on as Im afraid of causing any damage. What all do I have to remove to get at the oil pressure sensor ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Do not know about the oil pressure sender.

I will say the oil pan is not too hard to remove, only the rear most 4 bolts are tricky and you REALLY have to look to find them.

To pull the pan, takes about twice as long as an oil change. If you pull the oil pan, just replace the oil pick up, not worth the effort in trying to clean it. Pick up is about $25, you will need an O-ring and there is no oil pan gasket, I use Permatex Ultra Black and have no issues or leaks.

Actually new oil is a bigger problem than used oil. This is why I recommended the Mobil 1 0W40 oil and then add the SeaFoam or STP Multipurpose Engine Treatment.

As for the scan tool, yea the cheap Innova's do not support Live data. You NEED a tool that supports Live data.

Again, read about the Apps for smart phone in my signature. Engine/oil temperature is critical to helping the oil keep the engine clean and clear up any build up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Do you think it would help to put in a higher temperature thermostat rather than just replacing the existing one ? How hard is it to replace the thermostat - I know its easy on my buick but have no idea on the beetle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
No, do not put a higher temperature thermostat in the engine, you just need a thermostat that works. Thermostat can go soft in as little as 2 years. The VW ECU has a VERY POOR threshold for flagging a bad thermostat with a CEL, an engine can run 165/170F all day long without ever triggering a fault code.

You NEED an OBDII tool that can read Live/Real Time data, again, if you have a smart phone or Windows laptop, $30 tops is all you need to spend.

As for replacing the thermostat, it is not fun, but can be done with the proper tools without removing the alternator. It is located behind the alternator.

Read the link in my signature for more info.

I would either drain your current oil and save it in a clean container and switch to Mobil 1 0W40 and add SeaFoam or STP and make sure the thermostat is good or pull the pull the oil pan and replace the pickup. Even if you try the Mobil 1 with the SeaFoam or STP you may still have to pull the oil pan, but it is an attempt to clean up the oil pickup without pulling the oil pan. It you are lucky it may work, you will need to let the engine idle for a while to really get up to temp and try to drive carefully and "manage" when the oil light pops back on, putting the engine in neutral and letting the oil pressure build back up. If you are lucky you may be able to clear up part of the pickup within a few days or a week, an then continue to drive the car.

Engine temp will be the key here. You live in Canada, ran dino oil and probably had a bad thermostat and the crankcase was contaminated with water and it never boiled/cooked out.

See this picture of a typical oil fill cap with mayo on it due to too much water vapor in the crankcase. Also your engine oil probably turned black very quickly.

BTW, the orange pieces in the oil pickup are parts of the dipstick tube, I am on tube #3, assume your has broken at the base and been replaced at least once?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks again for the info jfoj, I really appreciate your time and advice. I will definitely get one of those ElmScan readers so I can track the temperature / not sure if it will work with my blackberry phone but should work with my laptop. Do you think it would be safe to drive the car with the oil light going on every time I go over 1500 rpms even driving around slow and easy ? I am afraid the low oil pressure might cause some parts to run dry and create more problems. As soon as I get a chance Im gonna drop the oil pan and check out the pickup tube.
What are the chances the oil pump will need to be replaced ? I think thats a more involved procedure but is it worth the effort once I drop the pan and is there any way to tell if the pump is worn out or not? Is there an estimated life span for these pumps? Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Thanks again for the info jfoj, I really appreciate your time and advice. I will definitely get one of those ElmScan readers so I can track the temperature / not sure if it will work with my blackberry phone but should work with my laptop. Do you think it would be safe to drive the car with the oil light going on every time I go over 1500 rpms even driving around slow and easy ? I am afraid the low oil pressure might cause some parts to run dry and create more problems. As soon as I get a chance Im gonna drop the oil pan and check out the pickup tube.
What are the chances the oil pump will need to be replaced ? I think thats a more involved procedure but is it worth the effort once I drop the pan and is there any way to tell if the pump is worn out or not? Is there an estimated life span for these pumps? Thanks
The ultimate resolution is replacing the oil pickup. If you plan on dropping the pan, have an oil pickup and O-ring on hand.

Oil pump will likely be fine.

You do not want to continue to drive as you could stave the upper end of the engine for oil causing the cams to get tight and jumps a timing belt.

If you have a Blackberry, suggest you get the $25 OBDWiz from Amazon.

If you want to chance things, drain the oil into a clean container and keep if for later, get Mobile 1 0W30 or OW40 and add a can of SeaFoam or STP. The Mobile 1 is a thinner oil and will hopefully get through the oil pickup easier. Once you get the Mobil 1 and SeaFoam then you NEED to make sure the engine is running warm enough as the warm oil and the SeaFoam/STP will hopefully start to clear out the oil pickup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
thermostat

Do you think it would help to put in a higher temperature thermostat rather than just replacing the existing one ? How hard is it to replace the thermostat - I know its easy on my buick but have no idea on the beetle.
Just put the correct thermostat but another option to use is 60/40 coolant which makes the engine run a little hotter depending on what % mix you have. 60% pure coolant and 40% distilled water or 70/30 I wouldn't go any higher than that.
If you live in Canada you should have been using synthetic oil this whole time. I believe I get away with using dino oil down here in South Texas because it's hardly below freezing no more than once or twice a year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
another question

This may or may not be related to the problem Im having and maybe you can check this for me on your beetles. When I went to add engine flush to the oil the car was running - I took off the oil cap and went to pour in the engine flush but there was so much air being pushed out from the opening I had to turn the engine off as I couldnt pour it in while it was running.(blew everything back out making a mess) Is this normal or is something else sludged up causing all this pressure ? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks esse10 - have you ever replaced the oil pressure sender - what all has to be removed to get at it ? I can hardly even see it ? thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Many cars have a vacuum in the crankcase when running, but you could have had splash coming out of the engine due to the cams, never tried pulling the oil fill in the VW when running.

What engine oil flush did you try to use?

How long did you leave it in the engine?

You could have an oil pressure sender issue, wiring issue to the sender or a cluster issue. But since you live in Canada, probably drive short distances in the Winter and probably have a soft thermostat, I would assume your oil pick up is partially restricted and starving the oil pump for oil. This is why when the RPM's go up your oil light comes on and the dash beeps. Then you let the engine idle back down and the problem will clear itself. Then the issue continues to repeat. Pretty typical of a restricted oil pick up, ask me how I know!

I ran full synthetic oil in my car, I am the original owner, but the thermostat was bad and I had no idea. The oil contaminates much faster in the Winter months when the oil does not get up to temperature. Also the water based oil cooler actually hurts the oil temps when the engine is running too cool as well.

All you have to do is look at the dipstick and how black the oil was before you changed it and even after it was changed and this will give you an idea of how quickly the crankcase is getting contaminated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I added two cans of Kleenflo 5 min. Engine flush and ran for 5 minutes at just under 1500 rpms / then changed the oil and filter. This didnt seem to make a difference. Im going to cut the old oil filter open to see whats in there. Hopefully not gonna make too much of a mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
I added two cans of Kleenflo 5 min. Engine flush and ran for 5 minutes at just under 1500 rpms / then changed the oil and filter. This didnt seem to make a difference. Im going to cut the old oil filter open to see whats in there. Hopefully not gonna make too much of a mess.
The 5 minute engine flush is not going to resolve this issue. I am not 100% sure the SeaFoam/STP will actually work, but if you can get oil flowing through the pickup using a thin Mobil 1 0W30 oi(decided since it is Winter time when you will be doing this, not too worried about using the 0W40)and make sure the engine runs warm enough, then you can likely start to clean things up and make headway.

The way I look at it, it is 4 quarts of new oil, a can of SeaFoam/STP possibly a thermostat and if it works, it saves you from pulling the oil pan in December in Canada!! Save your current oil for reuse, run the
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Cut open oil filter looking for sludge

I cut open the Beetle oil filter to see how much sludge would be in it but its a bit hard to tell. I also cut open the filter from my buick for comparison. It does seem like the Beetle filter papers are fuller and have been buckling whereas the Buick papers are straighter. I tried shining a light through both but neither seems be letting any light through.
Thanks.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
Assume the larger filter is from the VW?

Not a bit fan of the Fram filters for a number of reason.

If the picture is the color of your oil, I would be a bit concerned about the engine temps and oil contamination, should not be quite a dark as what I am seeing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Yes, larger oil filter belongs to the beetle, the oil was quite dark / the smaller one from the buick wasn't quite as dark. I cut the paper filter from the inside out as well to check and was able to see light through the buick filter but not the beetle - so the filter was quite blocked. The new oil and filter didnt seem to help. I may try another flush before dropping the pan. Unfortunately its been too cold outside to do much under the car so I have to wait before doing anything - unless I can find somewhere warmer to work on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,690 Posts
The new oil will actually make things worse. New oil is not a thin as used oil

I would not try the instant 5 minute flush, not likely to help, you need to do what I told you to do. Even letting the car idle for a 30-45 minutes or even slightly fast idle may help if you do what I suggested.

If your oil is this dirty in the filters, black, then you need to run SeaFoam/STP in each car, check the cooling system temps, drive the car longer to warm it up at least once a week, change the oil before Winter sets in and shorten your oil change intervals by watching the engine oil color.

Trust me, once I ran SeaFoam for 2500 miles, my 1.8t oil stayed MUCH cleaner through the change intervals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Finally removed pickup tube

Finally removed the pickup tube today and it was like 99% blocked. I could hardly stick a pin through the screen. No way any additives would've cleared up this mess. Now I just have to clean everything up and put it back together. Thanks for your help.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top