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Disenchanted
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey e'erybody...

My daughters 04 with 2.0 BEV and AT is throwing the P0221 code as well as the ASR and EPC lights coming on and diving into "limp mode".

I have tried the 60 second key on "calibration" and replaced the throttle pedal assembly today. Still throwing the same code and going into limp mode. :mad:

What I have learned: The P0221 code is NOT the throttle pedal sensor but a throttle position sensor in the throttle body. (Sensor B)

Can anyone steer me in the right direction on how to remedy this problem? Is there a place, other than the stealership, to purchase just the sensors on the throttle body or do you have to buy the whole damned thing?

If not, what brand of matches and accelarant would you recommend? ;)
 

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By the book -

16605/P0221/000545 - Angle Sensor for Throttle (G188): Implausible Signal

Possible Symptoms

  • Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) active
Possible Causes

  • Wiring/Connector(s) from/to Throttle Body Control (J338) faulty
Possible Solutions

  • Check Throttle Body Control (J338)
    • See Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 060+
  • Check Wiring/Connector(s) from/to Throttle Body Control (J338)
Special Notes

  • When found in the 2006 - 2009 NAR (North American Region) VW Jetta,Rabbit, GTI,Passat, Eos with the 2.0l TFSI: (BPY, CCTA and CBFA) check TSB 01-09-04 or 2018652 for a wiring repair at the Throttle Body.
  • When found in the 2005 - 2009 NAR (North American Region) Audi TT, A3, A4, A6, Q7 with a FSI engine check TSB 97-08-25 or 2018260 for a wiring repair at the Throttle Body. (The previous Audi TSB was 90-08-21)
Retrieved from "16605/P0221/000545 - Ross-Tech Wiki"

Before you go throwing new parts at her Bug in hot pursuit of the trial by error method of diagnosis, you might do well to find someone with Vag equipment, who knows how to use it, and have the Throttle Body Control checked. Curious, what lead you to the throttle pedal assembly replacement.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to this component I am clueless other than what is in the book. You need someone who has experience with this particular issue.

That said, and trying to say this tactfully, I would be hesitant to give you the part number, or sourcing for same, as I'm afraid you'd just continue your T & E diagnosis. Part of the reason for your "what brand of matches and accelarant would you recommend?" comment, which by the way IS funny.


As regards the ASR and EPC Warning lights. these are two different systems. The EPC monitors the engine control system and alerts you of a malfunction and at the same time throws the engine into limp mode, what your are experiencing (see the bottom of the attachments below). The ASR is the anti-slip function of the traction control and is also explained in the last attachment(s) below from the '04 Owner's Manual.

More from the book -
.
 

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Hey e'erybody...

My daughters 04 with 2.0 BEV and AT is throwing the P0221 code as well as the ASR and EPC lights coming on and diving into "limp mode".

I have tried the 60 second key on "calibration" and replaced the throttle pedal assembly today. Still throwing the same code and going into limp mode. :mad:

What I have learned: The P0221 code is NOT the throttle pedal sensor but a throttle position sensor in the throttle body. (Sensor B)

Can anyone steer me in the right direction on how to remedy this problem? Is there a place, other than the stealership, to purchase just the sensors on the throttle body or do you have to buy the whole damned thing?

If not, what brand of matches and accelarant would you recommend? ;)
You can try and take off the TB and clean it. Make sure you clean it with a TB safe cleaning solvent that doesn't remove the teflon on the Throttleblade. I would recommend Seafoam Deep Creep. It cleans great and is Teflon safe on Throttlebodies. I am not 100% sure but I don't think you can replace the sensor in the throttlebody since it is built in.
Here is a link to the Vortex on how to remove and clean a TB on a 2.0

Sorry, forgot to post the link :(

http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/MKIV/VWVortex.com_MKIV_VR6_12V_ThrottleBody_Cleaning_DIY.pdf
 

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Disenchanted
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Discussion Starter #4
Weeellll, what led me to replacing the pedal assy was a generic code reader and some bad advice through another board.

There are four sensors involved in throttle position (2 on the TB and 2 on the pedal assy). The "VW Tech with over 30 years experience" that gave the aforementioned advice said the pedal assy fails often.

I am definitely not a T&E mechanic, however, my previous foray into VW's was an air-cooled, 2108cc, 1970 Baja about 25 years ago.

My frustration with this vehicle is that it has spent almost as much time parked over the last 8 mos as it has on the road. New A/C compressor, New valve body in the transmission, and 3 trips to the stealership for a wiring issue that killed the bulbs in the Headlamps, DRL's, foglamps, all four turn signals, and park lamps on the front at the same time. I bought it with 36k on 2.5 years ago.
 

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Weeellll, what led me to replacing the pedal assy was a generic code reader and some bad advice through another board.

There are four sensors involved in throttle position (2 on the TB and 2 on the pedal assy). The "VW Tech with over 30 years experience" that gave the aforementioned advice said the pedal assy fails often.

I am definitely not a T&E mechanic, however, my previous foray into VW's was an air-cooled, 2108cc, 1970 Baja about 25 years ago.

My frustration with this vehicle is that it has spent almost as much time parked over the last 8 mos as it has on the road. New A/C compressor, New valve body in the transmission, and 3 trips to the stealership for a wiring issue that killed the bulbs in the Headlamps, DRL's, foglamps, all four turn signals, and park lamps on the front at the same time. I bought it with 36k on 2.5 years ago.
WOW, sounds like a lemon. :( Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with it. But I guess after all this time I wouldn't give up. You probably got most of the bugs out of the bug. ;)

Here is the link on how to clean the TB on 2.0l MKIV vehicles:
http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/MKIV/VWVortex.com_MKIV_VR6_12V_ThrottleBody_Cleaning_DIY.pdf
 

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5/23/10 <3
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Weeellll, what led me to replacing the pedal assy was a generic code reader and some bad advice through another board.

There are four sensors involved in throttle position (2 on the TB and 2 on the pedal assy). The "VW Tech with over 30 years experience" that gave the aforementioned advice said the pedal assy fails often.
First, would you mind telling us what the other board was? Would be good to know to stay away from!

And that's the first I've heard about the pedal assembly. Granted, I have only been really involved in VWs for 7-8 years, not 30, but I was on this forum and other VW forums, for those years and had my car for 6 1/2 years. I don't think I ever once heard of a pedal assembly failing.

Stick with these boards :cool:

Also, I'd take a look at what MORAV posted. The Ross-Tech wiki he posted from is always my first source when looking for code info. Followed by the Bentley (which he posted images from). If you are doing a lot of DIY work, I'd suggest picking yourself up a Bentley manual. Great tool to have and worth every penny. Plus, the holidays are here...maybe put it on your wishlist :p
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't want to start some sort of inter-board war, but, the initials of the other board are...

...vwvortex.com...

The guy I had been pm-ing with has "ASE VW Tech for 30 years" in his bio and has provided me with some sound advice in the past. That is the really frustrating part.

Tomorrow, I am going to pull the throttle body and clean it... I am not familiar with Vag-Com and live in an area with limited resources for that type of tinkering, unless, of course, it is used in John Deere tractors.

I will stick with these boards. There's something to be said for folks who will post their solutions out in the open for everyone to read, rather than via pm.

I will keep you guys posted on the progress.
 

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What section were you in? I've had good experience with the 'Tex in the past. Given me a lot of information, especially on the technical side. Don't let a bad egg ruin your time over there. There are people who should keep their mouths shut for sure, but its, in general, not a bad group. There is a reason why its such a big forum.

I tended to come here first with problems with my NB, but sometimes, questions just didn't get answered. A lot of times you can find the solution there already. Now that I have my GTI, the 'tex is where I have to live. But its not too bad. Stay out of the Mk4 section and you'll be fine :p
 

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I am not familiar with Vag-Com and live in an area with limited resources for that type of tinkering, unless, of course, it is used in John Deere tractors.
:confused:

I will stick with these boards. There's something to be said for folks who will post their solutions out in the open for everyone to read, rather than via pm.
:confused:

Must be a full moon :lol:
 

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I don't want to start some sort of inter-board war, but, the initials of the other board are...

...vwvortex.com...

The guy I had been pm-ing with has "ASE VW Tech for 30 years" in his bio and has provided me with some sound advice in the past. That is the really frustrating part.

Tomorrow, I am going to pull the throttle body and clean it... I am not familiar with Vag-Com and live in an area with limited resources for that type of tinkering, unless, of course, it is used in John Deere tractors.

I will stick with these boards. There's something to be said for folks who will post their solutions out in the open for everyone to read, rather than via pm.

I will keep you guys posted on the progress.
I don't agree! There is nothing wrong with the Vortex and SB, IndyTom and I are all members/posters there. It's not a very active Forum, however, many here have made use of many good posts, DIYs, etc, posted over there. As a matter of fact SB links some of them often.

I was never suggesting you had received bad advice, just wanted to know what lead you to the pedal assembly. I think you were given sound advance, from someone, who I believe was being honest in their credentials, and probably has more experience than half the members here put together. Probably the same path I would have taken, and when that wasn't the resolve, I would have probably gone back to that same person for further direction.

There is as much bad advice and direction given on Forums as there is bad/faulty work done by those who work on cars for a living and attempt to repair VW products without the proper training and/or the proper diagnostic tools. People come to Forums seeking advice/solutions because 1) they don't want to spend the money or 2) they don't have the money, to have their car properly diagnosed and repaired by a shop and/or mechanic who is qualified in this type of thing.

Many come here, and to other Forums, with problems, either poorly stated, lacking all, or enough detail, or with codes read by generic code readers, and expect miracles in obtaining immediate and perfect resolves. There is a reason, shops don't do repairs based on just what the Owner says. Instead they take this as a general direction in which to look and then spend time, some times a lot of time, doing the proper diagnosis. Sometimes charging for this service that outrages many. Many who think it is as simple as plugging a reader into the OBD port, ordering a part, and installing it. Not true, many diagnostic procedures take way longer than the actual time involved in installing the new part or fixing the problem. But yet people whine, and cry, and are outraged at charges for this, and instead turn to the Forums, seeking advice from those with limited knowledge, limited resource, and working with a limited amount of knowledge.

I am especially outraged by those who want to run down to the Corner Auto Parts and expect these people, many times kids working a part time job, with no real training, and even less experience, who expect these people to run right out to the car, with generic, base, equipment and in five minutes do a proper diagnosis, define the exact part failure, and then in turn run home, jump on line, find the cheapest online part they can, order it, put it in, and find it isn't the problem. And then are totally perplexed, and pi$$ed as to how this could possibly have happened. "That damn Corner Auto Parts Store" or in this case "That damn other Forum". People, you get what you pay for! When you pay for nothing, anything you get beyond nothing, is a gift!

In your case, from all I understand, and I am no expert, or trained technician, the components involved in your specific situation can all be diagnosed the Vag equipment. Not just done by reading a DTC from this equipment, but rather asking the right things of the equipment and then properly interpreting the equipment's response(s).

M.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Throttle-body replaced, assimilated and running perfectly!

I leave you all with a final note for this board...and vwvortex...

MORAV, I have said nothing negative about VWVortex in toto, I was simply answering the question asked of me...my dissatisfaction stems from the info I received from someone who states he is an ASE-Certified VW Tech with 30 years experience. I provided the same info to this board almost verbatim and received puzzled inquiries as to what led me to the pedal assembly. No one here has claimed ASE certification or any other credentials, yet the information provided has been infinitely more accurate. For that I salute you, SB, and IndyTom.

Admittedly, I do not have much skill in diagnosing OBDII issues. As I stated in an earlier post, my experience is largely rooted in pre-OBD vehicles. (1970 Beetle, 2 x 1966 Ford Mustangs, 1958 Chevy Apache SWB Custom Cab, 1968 Camaro RS/SS 396 w/ 871 GMC blower that ran 9.08-second quarter-mile at 164 mph, and, yes, 3 x 'Vettes: 63 Coupe, 66 Conv, and 68 Conv.) However, I am capable of pulling my own codes, with my own OBDII reader and researching the causes for the trigger of that code. In cases where the service manual is ambiguous, I have resorted to the boards for help. Usually, I find enthusiasts who are knowledgeable and friendly. Never have I relied upon the retail counter help (full- or part-time) for advice.

As a healthcare provider, I am responsible for the lives of others on a daily basis. I am as meticulous in my garage as I am in the research, preparation, and execution of a plan of care. You will recall from the first post on this subject that the car belongs to my daughter. That in and of itself should have been enough to quell any thoughts that I would be half-assing this job!

I am "especially outraged" by self-righteous pricks who think they are the only one who possess the knowledge and skill to perform ANY task...without EVER having to have learned anything from any external source.

To quote Will Farrell in Elf, "You're an angry elf!"
 
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