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Discussion Starter · #81 · (Edited)
Yes, I was referring to the complete throttle body assembly. I did not open it, just gave a good cleaning before installing, so there is no oil/goop buildup around and on the
butterfly valve.

The Meyle relay is a simple relay with 4 pins: , 2 coil pins and 2 pins that are switched on/off, hopefully they got that right. If need be, I can get a different make from a different supplier at some other time.

I did get the OBDeleven, I still need to install the software to me cell phone and "play" to see what I can do/see on the Bug and the Golf.

I will test the car today again, if all still good, I will reassemble the rest of the parts/panels that I took off to be able to do the work.

Again, thank you for your guidance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 · (Edited)
OBDeleven

The "good news":
1/ The car is working, no stalling, no EPC codes.

2/ OBDeleven does give a lot of info on the car -definitely more info and function then the code reader I was using.


The "I do not know news":
1/ Running the body alignment, channel 060, I get the following values:
line 1: 14 to 15
line 2: 84 to 85
line 3: 3
line 4: Error
The procedure does not complete I did wait for about 3 minutes, I can hear the throttle working.

The car scan shows all to be good except for the ECM, I get 2 error codes:
1/ P1568 (17976), Intermittent, Throttle valve control mechanical malfunction.
2/ P1564 (17972), static, insufficient voltage.

Battery voltage is steady at 12.7V

My guess would be to fix the voltage first, as low voltage may be causing the throttle body control not being able to do what it needs to do?? however I have no idea where to even start... Do I have a defective throttle body? - it fits, the car runs well, no more stalling.
I will start with the diagram you gave on one of your links: this is getting tiring.. I hope its not the ECM again, this time with a weak 5V output to the throttle.
Is the ground going to the ECM, or just to a ground someplace?

http://newbeetle.org/forums/1-8-lit...ed.html#/forumsite/20963/topics/124170?page=1
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 · (Edited)
debug goes on

So today I had some time to look at the problem "again"- my wife is getting jealous of the " Baguette", as I am spending too much time with it... lol .., here is what I got:

1/ Two days ago, on the way to work I had a EPC code on startup, so I left the car at home and used another car.

Today I used the OBDeleven to see what's up :
1/ The throttle body adaptation on channel 060 failed [ like before]
2/ Got 2 problem codes: P3026 and P1172, Signal too low on sensor 1 and sensor 2.

I measured the voltages on the throttle body connector:
Pin 2 to pin 1 0.0 V
Pin 2 to pin 3 1.63 V
Pin 2 to pin 4 3.39 V
pin 2 and pin 5 - missed that one somehow.
Pin 2 to pin 6 4.99 V

The following is the voltage between chassis ground to each pin:
Pin 1: 0.17 V
Pin 2: 5.24 V
Pin 3: 3.35 V
Pin 4: 0.17 V
Pin 5: 3.35 V
Pin 6: 0.26 V

I carefully inspected the connector and the wiring just past the first sharp turn, it all looks fine.

I watched the throttle valve while the adaptation alignment was set to run, it was opening only a small amount, before totally closing. [ I even attached a battery charger - just in case - it did not change anything ].
Got the same errors as before on the body alignment, channel 060:
line 1: 14 to 15
line 2: 84 to 85
line 3: 3
line 4: Error

Did I get a bad Throttle valve control module? - Or is power output from the ECU to weak, even though the static voltage measurement appears OK to me ???

As this thread is getting real long, the car is:
2002 VW Beetle
2.0L AVH engine,
automatic transmission.
The following was replaced this year: spark plugs, ignition wires and coil, fuel injectors, fuel pressure regulator, ECU was repaired for low output on Cyl #1, the 4 relays connected to ignition and engine operation, crankshaft position sensor, engine temperature sensor - maybe more that I do not remember.. :(


.



Please advise.
 

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if you haven't done so already, I would suggest that you remove the throttle body and thoroughly clean it, reinstall it and initiate the TBA process to see if this remedies the problem.
 

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Is the throttle body still under warranty? Have you considered replacing the terminal ends and plugs; that go to the throttle body? This was one of the fixes; that was mentioned in the thread, dedicated to tb issues. Lack of good internal connections; from terminals, caused by vibration, wear, contamination, corrosion, etc.; have been noted, as our cars age.

Repair wires with new pre crimped terminal ends and new plug housings; are available, from your local vw dealer. There are also, many plugs with already installed new terminal ends; sold on ebay but I cannot vouch for their quality, many being of Chinese origin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
thanks..

I had the throttle body for too long for warranty.

I did clean the butterfly valve and the intake on the throttle before installing.

I am going to do both, get the new connector and take the throttle body apart to make sure that the contacts against the position carbon traces are clean. Hopefully the local dealer has the connector kit.
Thanks for the suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Cleaned the TB still can not run the adaptation

I had some time today to spend with Bugette, so I took out the throttle body, took off the black cover and cleaned everything. Everything looked quite clean, actually looked close to new.

Is there any chance that the sensor in the car that senses the accelerator pedal position can be causing any of these problems?

After installing the throttle body and starting the car, I get identical symptoms:
The cart starts and drives just fine [ 10 minute test drive ].

  • The TB fails to run the adaptation alignment.
  • Complains about insufficient voltage during basic settings P1564
I will get the a new plug housing, even though the one on the car looks good and the wires ~ 10 inches that I unwrapped, also look good.

THIS PARAGRAPH IS ALL GUESSING: On the plug, pin 3 and 5 have heavier gauge wire - this likely drives the motor. Looking at the rest: pin 6 is the +5V and rest are likely signal wires. There appears to be no ground wire - it gets its ground through the housing, and not any of the wires.



I just printed off the test procedure for when I have time to look at this again:
Volkswagen Workshop Manuals > New Beetle GLS L4-2.0L (AVH) (2001) > Powertrain Management > Relays and Modules - Powertrain Management > Relays and Modules - Computers and Control Systems > Electronic Throttle Control Module > Component Information >


I am starting to think that the problems is the ECU. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Finaly had some time;

I got the replacement wires/connectors from the local dealer. Any recommendations on how I should connect the new wires to the old ones? Solder or crimp? If crimp what should I use?
Thanks in advance.
 

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I personally solder wires together and use shrink tube (sometimes two layers) over that. I have a 100 watt soldering iron I use for this, as your typical 25 to 30 watt iron won't work well on heavier gauge wires used in a car. On very large connections (like 6 gauge wire to a copper ring terminal) I've used a plumbing torch to get the thing hot enough. I've heard some people say that soldered wire connections in a car can break over time due to vibration, but I've never had that happen to me. I have had crimped connections go bad due to corrosion, since most of those connectors aren't waterproof.

If you're really paranoid, you can use a lineman's splice (and solder it), which is overkill, but designed to work in tension:

How-To: Splice Wire to NASA Standards | Make:
 

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The other route is crimp connectors; as noted, there seems to be either crimp or solder "controversy", based upon what people think is best.

https://www.google.com/search?q=solder+or+crimp+article&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

VW factory service manuals recommend crimping solder-less connectors with the heat shrink and impregnated sealing adhesive, which seals out any possibility of corrosion.

If you want to get really nerdy; you can check out VW's self study program and read their recommended wiring repair procedures:

SSP 871003 Wiring Harness Inspection and Repair

http://tinyurl.com/jkkpes9

I use a good quality crimping tool and 3M brand butt connectors.

I usep a crimping plier; a design that is sold under a number of brands: Snap-On, Thomas/Betts, Ideal and Klein:

Crimper, 22 to 10 AWG, 9-5/8" L

http://tinyurl.com/zh8ce9p

You can find these at most hardware stores and places like Home Depot or Lowe's under the Klein or ideal (among many other brands).

Searching online, the Channellock
909 Crimping Tool with Cutter; seems to be one of the best priced versions by a decent quality tool brand, at under $20 online from amazon.

Here is the high quality self sealing heat shrink connectors; that are recommended by VW:

3M™ Scotchlok™ Butt Connector, Heat Shrink Seamless:

http://tinyurl.com/hbkhw9t

I bought mine at Walmart in the automotive section.

Adding heat shrink; can isolate the wires and repairs; from the heat of the engine.

http://tinyurl.com/ju2v5zu
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
Thsi is the final chapther - I hope.

The new connector is in, including about 6" of new wire.

I soldered the wires, used heat shrink tubing and then sealed the ends of the heat shrink tubing with liquid tape - after that I wrapped the wires in electrical tape and put protective tubing over top.


The car has been on the road for just about a month, it is running perfectly.

I have not seen the dreaded EPC code since !! I hope this is it for a real long time. :)
 
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