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2005 2.0L Convertible GLS BEV 6Speed Auto (09G/HFZ)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Tacking this job right now and I'm just wondering if removing the expansion tank is necessary. Reason why I'm asking is that the shop that replaced the timing belt last time never put the bolt back into the support bracket (see pic). It's been over 4 years and I've had no issues without the missing bracket bolt it seems. (Is the bracket even necessary?) I'm assuming you have to move the coolant expansion tank to get to that bracket bolt, but in my case it may not be necessary. So if I remove the two bolts from the top motor mount, I should be able just slide it out, no? Just wondering if anyone else has done this without messing with the expansion tank.
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I think I've come across at least one YT upload where someone does not remove the expansion tank on the Beetle and still takes the bracket and the top motor mount off, so I may skip that step. He slides a box wrench under to remove the bolt attaching the bracket to the mount, which I don't need to do courtesy of the shop that worked on it last. Here's the video and its at 8:10 where he removes the top half of the motor mount -
 

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The coolant tank does not need to be removed and the small bracket isn’t necessary but if you wanted to put everything back as stock, your vw dealer could get you the missing bolts.


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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I finished replacing the tb, tensioner and water pump. I'm waiting on a new serpentine/accessory belt, and have to refill the coolant, but I did crank the engine to make sure I didnt hear anything unusual and then ran the engine 30 seconds before putting the mounts back. Started right up and ran ok, so at this point I think all is ok. It took a while - about 5-6 hours - mostly because I was taking my time and triple checking everything and because I didnt realize I had gotten away with a not having standard 16mm socket all these years. The deep well 16mm came in handy for the top rear engine mount bolt, but was too long for the top front so off to the auto store for the socket.

Anyway, I didn't have any major snags so as far as getting the belt on and off without incident here are tips and what worked for me:
(1) Start first with loosening/breaking the crank pulley bolts. If you wait until after you release tension on the tensioner you will have to work harder to keep the pulley from rotating while breaking those bolts.
(2) Soak the crank pulley hex bolts w PB Blaster or similar, and dig out any grit w a pick (thanks to billymade for that advice). I wasn't in a rush so I let the bolts sit overnight. By the time I was done, they were pretty clean and I was able to seat my 6mm hex socket on well with no stripping of the heads. Probably could have used an impact.
(3) You don't have to remove the coolant tank, as long as you can slip a 13mm box wrench under it to remove the bolt that holds a bracket to the top motor mount. The bolt was missing on mine and I was able to get everything done w the tank in place.
(4) Tapping the crank pulley with a hammer on one side will loosen it up so you can work it off.
(5) Remove BOTH the middle and lower timing belt shields once the pulley is off. I didn't have any problems getting the engine mount bracket off or on, in part, because there was no binding w that middle shield.
(6) May seem obvious, but just in case - mark your crank sprocket. Pick a tooth, run your paint or marker on the entire top edge of the tooth until you get to where it seats against the engine and put a dot there. It'll make lining up your timing from the top side much easier.
(7) If you don't remove the coolant expansion tank remove the connection to the sensor, you'll have more room to remove the top mount bolts and the engine bracket bolts. Once bolts were removed, the top motor mount slipped out easily with the tank in place.
(8) Engine mount bracket-
(a) Start w Top front - raise engine with block of wood under the oil pan until you can get a 16mm standard socket with a small extension on the bolt. My deep well 16mm was too long and I kept bumping up against the windshield washer tank.
(b) Next Bottom Bolt - lower the engine until you can seat your socket on the bolt. Pretty easy to pull that one out.
(c) Last the firewall side top bolt. Raise the engine back up - a bit higher this time - until you can seat your socket on the bolt. I used either a deep well 16mm or the standard with a small extension. The bolt is under the metal tab with the hole so you will have to get around and under that tab. Once I knew the engine was raised high enough I connected the socket and/or socket w extension to the ratchet and worked it back around and under that metal tab and onto the bolt. There isnt much room to swing the ratchet once its on bc of what may be an ac coolant line that runs to the firewall that gets in the way. But you just need enough throw to break that back bolt. I worked it maybe an inch or two at a time until I knew the bolt was loose. At that point I went underneath the car and took my deep well 16mm and attached it to the bolt from the bottom and loosened it and removed it by hand without a ratchet. Came out pretty easily.
(d) Since you are already underneath, pull the bracket down from under. I had to practically catch it to keep it from falling on me. My belt was already off and the tensioner removed, but you should be able to work around them both to pull it out from underneath.
(9) Have a small pry bar ready-you may need to pry your water pump out. Once I removed the bolts, the water pump was still sealed on pretty good. I used a small pry bar under a tab on my pump to slowly wiggle one side out. Clean the mating surface after you remove the old pump.
(10) Bolt on your new pump and tensioner. I dabbed assembly lube around the o-ring of the water pump and it went in fairly easily. As for the tensioner, make sure the tab on the tensioner is inserted into the hole on the cylinder wall. And when tightening, the nut should be finger tight. But first before tightening the nut, ROTATE THE ECCENTRIC back and forth 5 times each way after you get it on. (See why at 13.)
(11) Get your new belt on. There's only one way to do it. Here is where I wasted 45 minutes. I tried "Shrodingers" way-crank sprocket last. No go, the belt is too tight even without any tension (no wonder mine didn't skip a tooth when my tensioner failed) Then I tried "How to Automotive's" way - cam sprocket last, edging the belt on the cam sprocket and water pump. No go, still way too tight. Finally gave in and looked at the Briansmobile1 yt post (thanks again to billymade for the link and suggestion). I thought the back and forth w the cam sprocket would take too long and was overly complex, but it took me 5 minutes at most to get the belt on and with all marks at tdc. He deserves some sort of medal. Only thing I did differently was place a 6mm socket instead of a screwdriver under the belt under the crank sprocket to hold it in place. Follow his method step by step.
(12) With timing marks lined up, tighten the bolt on the tensioner enough by hand or w a socket but so you are still able to rotate the eccentric and have it stay in place. When your eccentric mark lines up with the tab tighten to 15 ft lbs. I used erwin snap ring pliers to rotate the eccentric.
(13) Rotate the crankshaft twice-make sure your cam and tensioner marks line up. My timing marks lined up just right each time. Its my tensioner mark that kept falling out of line. After the first and second rounds of rotations the tensioner mark would slip out of place slightly and I would have to loosen the bolt and set it in place. After the third round it finally held in place. Then I remembered Shrodingers yt video. I didn't get any instructions w my tensioner but he mentioned his instructions said to rotate the eccentric 5 times in both directions before setting the final tension. I'm guessing that sitting in a box for x years, the tensioner and spring have a static tension that needs to get worked out before it can settle on a stable resting point once it's set for good.
(14) Slip the engine bracket in place from underneath. I worked it into the space nearest the firewall, then wiggled it around the tensioner and hooked it over the belt. I wasted 2 minutes seeing if it would go in from up top. Don't waste your 2 minutes.
(15) Bolt the engine mount bracket. While you're underneath have your 16mm deep well and socket ready to slip the rear top bolt in place, as tight with the deep well as you can by hand. Then go up top-again, wriggle your socket w the extension around and under that metal tab with the hole. I had to hold the extension straight and steady with my left hand while tightening (again inches at a time) with my right to make sure the socket was seated on and not rounding the bolt. Tighten as much as you think 33 ft lbs (or whatever the proper torque is-escapes me at the moment). Then raise and lower the engine to get the front and lower engine bracket bolts on, same process as getting them off.
(16) Top motor mount bracket - slipped into place easily under the expansion tank. You may need to lower engine or raise it, get it as close to square against the engine mount bracket as possible before tightening the bolts on the top mount. I started w bolting onto the engine bracket-73ish ft lbs I think is what Bentley said. No angle torque after according to Bentley. On the frame bolts - torqued to 30 ft lbs (or what Bentley said), drew a vertical line on the bolts, then rotated those bolts 90 degrees.

That's it. We'll see how it runs!
 

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Good work, the first time; always takes longer and the next time, will go faster. Good tips and walk through info; thanks for taking the time to share, providing , a detailed step by step diy install guide! :)


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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good work, the first time; always takes longer and the next time, will go faster. Good tips and walk through info; thanks for taking the time to share, providing , a detailed step by step diy install guide! :)


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Thanks again for all the helpful advice. Took it for a short drive - all went well and it shifted smoothly so I'm guessing the camshaft position sensor was OK (posted about it elsewhere) after all and all I had was a failed tensioner (posted about that too elsewhere).

To wrap up, a couple of things that surprised me. The shop that worked on it before apparently used a Gates timing belt kit, because everything was Gates. After 75k miles that belt was in great shape, probably could have gone another 75k. Hope the Conti I put on performs as well. The Gates water pump also was in great shape - metal impellers - turned smoothly. It almost looked new. I'm keep it along with the CPS sensor I pulled. So the weak link in the Gates kit is the tensioner, which definitely failed and could no longer hold tension.

Another pleasant surprise was the Dayco serpentine belt that the shop used. I went ahead and replaced that belt while I was at it, but that Dayco belt had absolutely no cracking or pitting after 75k miles too. So for what it's worth big thumbs up on Dayco and Gates belts, the Gates WP, not so much on the Gates tensioner.
 

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Historically, Gates has supplied good quality products; their timing belt kits were recommended, as a solid choice with oem parts included. Lately, it seems feedback online, is indicating; these oem quality parts are being replaced with substandard Chinese aftermarket parts. The actual Gates produced parts seem fine but in many cases, not the other included parts. I have used Gates belts and hoses; they were fine, seemed good quality.

The oem VW timing belt is said to be made by Continental and their timing belt kits, seem to have the actual oem parts included.

I have also used INA/Schaeffler kits and they had all oem parts included and are top quality as well.


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@05MDBeetle Thanks for the write up. I need to do this job on my 2000 2.0 Beetle, so truly appreciate the tips. One thing I am concerned about is getting the timing correct. Aside from Step 6 where you marked the Crank tooth and dot on the engine case, did you do anything else to make sure everything was in the correct position, timing-wise?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
@05MDBeetle Thanks for the write up. I need to do this job on my 2000 2.0 Beetle, so truly appreciate the tips. One thing I am concerned about is getting the timing correct. Aside from Step 6 where you marked the Crank tooth and dot on the engine case, did you do anything else to make sure everything was in the correct position, timing-wise?
Sorry for the delay. My description was pretty abbreviated but I spent alot of time setting my timing marks before and during the timing belt replacement. I have never been able to use the window on the top of the tranny to check timing bc on my 09G its impossible to get a good view without removing hoses and maybe the pack that sits over the window. The Bentley manual instructs to use the crank pulley and cam sprocket markings to set the timing so I went with that.
Before:
1. Before I started I made absolutely sure the engine was in time to begin with. On the cam sprocket I used a combination square - but any straight edge will do - to make sure the tooth with the timing notch/mark lined up with the arrow on the cylinder head. I used a white paint marker and painted the notch and the arrow to make it easier to see.
2. I then went under and made sure that the crank pulley notch was lined up with the indent on the lower timing cover. Its a very subtle indent so I wiped the cover off first with a rag and rubbing alcohol to make sure I got a good look using a mirror. You have to hold a mirror directly above the crank pulley notch to get the best/truist view. With the cam sprocket lined up up top, I was able to confirm that the crank pulley notch was lined up with the indent on the lower timing belt cover.
3. I then made three additional markings/dots on both the crank pulley and the lower timing belt cover so it would be easier to spot if it was at tdc without having to use a mirror.
4. Even after I broke the crank pulley bolts loose and tapped the crank pulley loose, I pushed the pulley back into place, tightened the bolts back up by hand and checked to make sure all of the marks on the lower timing belt cover and the pulley lined up one last time. When I knew they were still lined up I loosened the bolts and removed the pulley as gently as possible making sure the hub never moved.
During:
1. Since I knew the crank hub and crank sprocket were in tdc position and had not moved when I pulled off the crank pulley, I made markings on the crank sprocket, crank sprocket tooth and engine wall that I described above that I could use after putting the belt on to double check timing in step 12 above.
2. With the lower timing belt cover removed and the crank pulley removed, I laid the pulley over the cover on the floor to confirm my markings- ie, with the three new markings all lined up, the notch in the crank pulley lined up with the indent on the lower timing cover.
3.To make it easier to check all my markings in the future, I used masking tape and taped off the indent on the lower timing cover and then used a white paint marker and painted in the indent. I also put a paint dot on the notch on the crank pulley.
4. When slipping the belt on I used BrianMobiles method described above and in the video, and I used the crank sprocket tooth markings described above to double check timing after the belt was on.
5. After the timing belt was on and the lower timing cover and the crank pulley back in place, I made sure my crank pulley markings all lined up. With the indent on the lower timing cover painted in it was much easier to check if the pulley notch lined up.

One thing I was wondering about in using the crank pulley markings to set timing was so-called play on the bolts when taking it off and on. But when the pulley is fully seated against whatever it rests up against and all of the bolts are on and somewhat tightened there is little to no discernible play, as far as I could tell. The pulley always lines up in the same spot. If there were any play, it would be in millimeters-probably the same or less play you would get from a belt that has stretched over time with the tensioner making up most of the difference. Not enough play to skip to the next tooth, and I'm guessing that's why Bentley instructs to use the crank pulley markings.

Anyway, that's about it. It's my wife's daily driver, she puts over 100 miles a day with a long one hour commute, so we've put over 2000 miles on it since the belt change. Runs great no issues so far. (Welp, except the radiator fans only turn on when the ac is running, but that's a separate issue and a post for another day-over 230k miles, so things are wearing...)
 
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