NewBeetle.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
so im losing more and more of my fender each day the little lip that wraps in towards the tire is slowly losing a battle with my tire.
so my question to everyone on the org is how do people stance beetles? im static on stock 6-spoke beetle wheels and a 205/55/16 only my driverside rubs fender even though its higher than my passenger side. its always seemed to be more flush with the tire although i have the same 10mm spacers on each side. im running raceland ultimos. yes i know theyre cheap but i can semicomfortably drive on the highway at 24" ftg with nearly no fsb or axle to body rub. so do i need strecthed tires or something to clear my fender? how does everyone else achieve it? can i use heat a a jack and a book to stretch the fender where needed?
 

·
DropTopDub Extraordinaire
Joined
·
129 Posts
the fenders are plastic- sorry no rolling them. you could add flares, and cut the lip of the fender and then repaint. youll have to pull and replace your ENTIRE FRONT clip several times - have fun hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
455 Posts
you could add flares, and cut the lip of the fender and then repaint. youll have to pull and replace your ENTIRE FRONT clip several times - have fun hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
That is exactly how I did it, however it is possible to stance a Beetle through wheel, tire, and spacer choice. Most people start with the wheel. If it doesn't sit flush or beyond the lip, ad spacers. Now here is the tricky part. Tire size. Stretching the tire is basically moving the outside edge of the tire inward enough to create clearance between it and the fender.

Rolling metal fenders truly only gives a few mm, but it is typically just enough for clearance. Some will pull the entire fender out, but this can only be done on a Beetle with flares or crazy good plastic working skills. Your best bet is tire size. I have seen many cars around here that have pulled it off, but I bet most would admit to some rubbing. Even with flares I still rub. I will fix by hacking off more of the factory lip, but most don't have that option.

I can speak to the reliability or safety of a stretched tire. I personally don't think it is s good idea, but many people have great looking stanced beetles around here doing just that.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
its definately the fronts rubbing anyways i havent put the money into rear spacers yet and since i couldnt drive my car without fronts they came first.im thinking of getting rotiform blq's or bbs rs's thisw summer im currently running the stock 6spoke et42 on a 205./55/16 whatr tire sizes are people using to pull off daily drivability in stanced static new beetles.
 

·
I don't care.....
Joined
·
786 Posts
That may be parked but i can drive without the tyre tops showing and the only thing it rubs is the inner arch on full lock, apart from that no problems at all.

As I said tyre choice wheel size, offset and spacer choice are all crucial to getting it right. My set up is 18x8 et35 wheels, 5mm front and 10mm rear spacers. I have tried running camber shims before now but the handling is awful when you run so low. The tyre doesn't stretch too much at all, in fact it's barely noticeable and i've been running them like that for years with no adverse effects.

Static or air doesn't matter when you're talking about rubbing and it gets real boring when people think that just because you have air on your car you always run at 4x4 height, the opposite is more near it tbh. The difference is that when you come to a speed bump or similar you can hit a switch and fly over. Then again i get used to the assumption we all drive around higher than a donk and only park low, ask anyone who knows me and they will tell you different, the wife will definitely tell you so, :lol: .

Then again if you want to really stance your car out you're going to be looking at chassis notches, engine raises, exhaust clearing, lower top mounts so you keep the damper travel and ride comfort or some decent coilovers made for lowering like the H&R Ultra Lows, adding some negative camber in the front because when you drop it positive camber is automatically added, different ARB because it WILL catch the driveshaft if you drop it enough. And on top of all that you have to find a good shop somewhere that will be able to do your tracking for you properly at your new (low) height.

Anyway. When you decide on the wheels you want and the size then use this calculator to see how it will affect the height and fit.
Online Wheel & Tyre Fitment calculator. Offset, Tyre stretch and Rolling Radius calculator
Using that i can tell you that just by using the wheel and tyre combo i have over the stock size i lowered my car by an inch.

Rolling height, just to prove my point. Different wheels, same size of wheel and tyre. But hey what do i know, i'm on air ;) :
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
ok well to start off i have the best alignment shop and if anyone reading this lives in the 757 va section BERTS ALIGNMENT go there $75 my alignment is so amazingly good all the bs shops couldnt get me on their equipment and all said i was too far out of factory specs. i left merchants with the whole staff talking trash on my car and how it was unalignable and how it was sure to eat tires. it took 3hrs with a 1hr lunch break due to my appt time and i have a perfectly flat tire to ground meeting. anyways sorry for the rant but there good and id reccomend them to anyone. anyways im running 10mm spacers and am barely ever rubbing the swaybar. not axel to subframe wear just evidence of having gone over a wrong pothole or two.. all the crud is still on the subframe so i dont think i did any damage. i did notice however that after lowering my car the drivers side cv axle inner boot immediately went out. its not making noise yet so im driving on it. idk if i already said this but im on raceland ultimos the ride comfort is fine by me id suspect if i went much lower id need alot my shock travel for any sort of comfort. but i spun them all the way down and i was nearly laying frame 3/4" gap from panzer plate being on the ground. im getting more and more comfortable driving low and plan on starting to slowly go down a couple of threads. but when i was spun all the way down i couldnt turn the wheel more than 30 degrees in either direction without feeling like my fender was going to get ripped off. i plan on getting a frame notch and if i ever go to a show i want to be able to get legitly staticly low. so wtf do i do with the fenders? ive found someone whos good with plastic worth but the possible cost of replacement scares me. could i shim the fender up or outwards to prevent rub? i know my ftg would increase but so would my potential low drivability. i think im as low as possible at 24" on all 4 corners without tearing up my car in the process of being a daily driver. also sidenote i notice my handling really didnt go to **** when i dropped my car the understeer point seem to be at a slightly slower speed. but the car still handles pretty damn well. tho i did also put in new balljoints and LCA bushings with ECS' solid urethane ones which i expect to be replacing soon i would recommend against them everyone says they wear out quick due to binding then they go from being squeaky after first to quiet and comfortable to ****. and im currently at quiet and comfortable waiting for the **** stage but well see. im baked and need to end this paragraph of all sorts of errors

what are you guys stretching as far as tire size? to be $$$$ conscious i think im going to go with miro type 368s will a 18x8.5 fit on a beetle with a little [laying around with the offset? and how do aspect ratios affect the ability to stretch?
and from that picture im almost that low now
 

·
I don't care.....
Joined
·
786 Posts
First thing: good on ya for finding a good shop to do your tracking, they are worth their weight in gold.

Second: Your cv boot will pull a lot more because of the angles the shafts sit at when lower. This is one of the reasons i had my engine raised, to take the stress off the cv joints and boots and stop the binding that can happen. It worked but the payoff is you have to have a chassis notch.

Third: I wouldn't put solid urethane bushings in but if they are working for you then fair play. Better option is to get the Cupra R/R32 bushings. They are still solid but made of a more compliant rubber. Had mine for over a year now and still no problems.

Fourth: Wheel size, at 18x8.5 you're getting to the limit of what you can get under a new beetle arch. Some will tell you different but then they will have 2 inches of poke. Tyre size you need to be looking at 205 or 215 section tyres really. Profile is up to you really. Personally i like 215/35s as they stay right out of the way and your wheels look to fill the arches more. As for offset, anything around the 35 mark is about right for an 8/8.5 wheel. You won't need to space much if any with that offset. If you go with the 8.5 wheel you probably won't be able to put any spacers in the front without them poking. At the back a 10mm spacer on an ET35 wheel gets it flush with the arch (see pic above). Don't worry about knocking your speedo out, if anything it will read a fraction faster, mine reads 74 at 70 confirmed with the GPS.

As for the fenders there's not much you can do really. You could carefully grind off the lip and that will give you more room but that's really it. Personally i wouldn't do that as if you catch it now you're just catching a nice fat lip and the worse that will happen is it will wear a bit, take that lip off and you have a nice sharp edge just waiting to cut through tyres.
The best thing would be to get your new choice of wheel sorted first and see where you are. You'd be amazed how much difference there is for even just the smallest bit of stretch and how it helps you.
If anything your problem then will be the rubbing of the inner arch. I went through mine a while ago and just put tape over there now, no point replacing them as i know i'll just rub through them again.

Good luck with whichever path you go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
so thats extremely helpful nighttrain. thank you. i plan to do 18x8.5s like stated im now going to start researching tire cost. i already have 5x100 hubcentric 10mm spacers up front and extended wheel lug with like 9.5 turns 2 over required. problem is in the process of doing all this suspension work i seemed to misplace my wheel lock key. im waiting for some vws to roll through the local maaco where my buddys works they said theyd let me use a wheel lock if another car had it im getting rid of them and putting in normal bolts to eliminate this problem. but i might get my buddy to sand down atleast the interior on the fronts in their downtime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
so i was thinking today.... do they make tranny mount spacers or is there no room to do it? because raising the motor logically would put more stress on the shorter steeper angled driverside(US) boot coming off the tranny like i said mine is going out and i do plan on doing the R bushings

nighttrain i DD my car at a static 24" on cheap coils how outrageous is the ride going to be on rubberband tires and big wheels? its semi tolerable on the 205/55/16 is it going to be more on rails? is the overall tire diameter more or less? im assuming less because u said it read high am i going to be able to go up a little and retain my ftg while at the same time gaining suspension travel?
 

·
I don't care.....
Joined
·
786 Posts
First: The spacers go under the engine mounts at each side so it raises the engine and tranny out of the way being that they're attached to each other. This then relieves stress off all your CV joints as the angles are reduced. Also those R bushings are brilliant, trust me on this one.

Second: 24" is getting down there, nice. As for ride a lot depends on how much travel is left in your shocks. If there's not much left there then you're going to be running on the stops which is not good. If there's still travel there then fair play, all's good.
Tyre wise you would be surprised how much a big sidewall tyre soaks up bumps. If you check out an F1 car for example you'll see they're stiff as hell and over half of the actual suspension travel is in the tyre. Again, i run 215/35 tyres and yes they are harsher but not as much as you would think, and believe me London roads are foul. Step that up to a 40 profile and you will gain a bit more comfort.
One thing you will have to do though is run them at higher pressure. I run my fronts at 38 psi and the back at 35 psi, this is purely because the car rides and drives better at those pressures but also it protects the wheels better as well.
 

·
buggin
Joined
·
694 Posts
is it bad that I'm rubbing tire a little on big bumps (in the rear)? It doesn't seem rampant but often enough for me to notice on the tire.

I'm gonna try to grind the fender lip away when I have the proper tool available to me, but for the time being should I be concerned for my tires? It's started since putting 20mm spacers on, it look great but i'd really like to be rid of tire rubbing especially since the tires are pretty new =\

But maybe it's nothing to worry about?

Here's my other thread with pics

VWVortex.com - Is this dangerous/risky?
 

·
I don't care.....
Joined
·
786 Posts
Tbh, i'd change tyres or spacers.

The sidewall of a tyre is nowhere near as resilient as the tread part. Here in the UK if a tyre has a knick or cut in the sidewall it will fail its MOT, simple.

You can try and grind the lip down a bit but then you'll leave a very sharp edge. As for heating and pulling you're just heading for a world of hurt.
 

·
buggin
Joined
·
694 Posts
Really i'm contemplating just raising the stupid thing up :(
Might put up a WTT for some 17.5mm spacers in addition though.

That said the rubbing practically is on the tread, like the side of the tread, really. Probably doesn't make much difference though...
So upsetting, i finally got spacers and was able to get the stance i want and of course it's getting complicated.
 

·
buggin
Joined
·
694 Posts
I could, but i feel like the minor rubbing i'm dealing with probably wouldn't be negated by the tire wear issues with added camber : / besides they are just 17x7 longbeaches.

What i do think would work is great plates, because it seems to rub forwards from the apex of fender arc, where the fender starts moving inwards toward the rocker panel, i think if the wheel was moved back to the center of the fender that portion is a bit further out and would probably clear.

But i'm just questioning if any of this is worth the trouble :(
 

·
I don't care.....
Joined
·
786 Posts
Tbh, if you throw 1deg camber shims in there tyre wear isn't an issue. I had that in for a long time and noticed hardly any difference at all.

The great plates are good at what they do, but i can bet that if you put them then you'll want to get rid of that new gap you just created, :lol:
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top