Scaling back from the Collective

2065 Views 23 Replies 10 Participants Last post by TechnoTrix'd, May 22, 2015

Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · Apr 21, 2015

I think I'm going to return to my roots here on the Org for the most part, despite the much lower volume of traffic as compared to the Collective. I joined the Collective to keep in touch with all my Beetle friends because this site has sadly become quite idle, and while the water-cooled Beetle community is by far the best automotive enthusiast group anyone will ever come across, I've found that there are lots of people over there that don't really fit the Org mold, or at least my version of what it should be. Perhaps the fact that more personal info seems to be unveiled on FB makes one see that not all water Beetle people are as much on the same page as I previously thought. Some will not agree, but I've found that differences of opinions over there can become almost as hostile as what many of us have seen on the Vortex. The difference, of course, is that such discussions are usually stopped dead in their tracks before they get really ugly, but I'm disappointed that they exist in the first place. I'm not leaving the Collective, and I'll still pop in over there, but it's going to be a lot less frequently, at least for the time being.

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Chuckie

· #2 · Apr 21, 2015

Well Stated

I understand completely.

I am in the same boat. It seems that in the quest to become significant, the Collective signed up anyone who wanted to join. Now the membership is huge and no one really knows anyone at all. You post a photoof your car and some fool on the other side of the world immediately criticizes your taste and efforts.

I'll stick to the org and the more specific fb pages ie: the event pages.

Chuckie

Smileybug

· #3 · Apr 21, 2015

There are a lot of people on the Collective that aren't even members here! I know I've posted a few times saying that there is a thread here that answers someone's question and they have no idea what the Org is. Which is really unfortunate.

That said, with the disagreements and such over there, it happens here too. I've been here long enough to see many threads get very heated and people banned from the site because of things said. That stuff is everywhere, its not limited to the Vortex for sure. Its all a matter of numbers. More people, the greater the chance for that kind of behavior. The Org is a much smaller site than Vortex, which is why its easier to keep it in check, but it does happen, not just on the Collective but here on the forums too.

glassbuggy

· #4 · Apr 21, 2015

I'm not on the collective , and one thing I like to do is share my knowledge and tips. Facebook isn't good for that as posts get buried and are unsearchable. I used to be amused at snarky comments. The past few years the troll mentality has grated on me and I don't read comments on articles anylonger. There is something about anonymity that brings out boorish behavior. Facebook comments are there and gone in a few days replaced my more.

Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 21, 2015 (Edited)

Yes, the Internet is sort of like the old Colt 45 pistol: it makes everyone the same size for fighting, except in verbal form. In the case of FB, regardless if the group pertains to cars or just about anything else, it would seem that it is by far the preferred site to go to, and while I'm sure Jessica is correct in saying that the Org isn't immune to heated exchanges, the odds of disagreements turning into a sophomoric drama war increase exponentially based on how big the site is. I have definitely noticed that there are far more Collective members than Orgers, too. If I were to guess out of the blue, I'd say that there are a good 10 times as many Collective "regulars" as Orgers. If you look at this site's Member's List, you'll see thousands of names, but I'd bet 95% or more are either long gone or they joined to ask one question only to never be heard from again.

In my case, I just think I need a smaller, more intimate site to share my passion for 1998+ Beetles. I guess I just wish that more of the friendly Collective people would wander over here while the not-so-friendly ones could stay put. The scary thing is that the troll mentality glassbuggy speaks of is very real and will likely become the norm as younger, tactless generations of people displace the older segment of the population.

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IggysMom

· #6 · Apr 25, 2015

I'm here and on the collective.

Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 25, 2015

And a lot of nice people like you are.

But because the Collective is at least 10 times larger, I've found more rude people over there in 9 months than in 9 years as an Orger. To say that these qualities can be found even in Beetle owners is disappointing to say the least, but the bigger the site, the greater the odds, especially as the younger generations that know next to nothing about etiquette displace those of us that know what that term means.

IggysMom

· #8 · Apr 26, 2015

Etiquette? We dont need no stinking etiquette. Lol

Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 26, 2015

Lol, Kristen.

Seriously, it's all in the delivery. In my thinking, there's a big difference in saying something like, " Some Beetle owners have had problems with automatic transmissions," as opposed to, "Don't buy a Beetle with an automatic. They will explode once you reach 100K miles."

The real kicker is when some kid that can't function without a Smartphone for more than five consecutive minutes doesn't realize that saying, "Beetles have lots of problems and fall apart fast" is exactly the same thing as saying, "Beetles are junk."

Gringo

· #10 · May 17, 2015

What is even more disturbing is the amount of youth-bashing that is taking place in this thread:

Post #5:

Pushing Fifty said:
... The scary thing is that the troll mentality glassbuggy speaks of is very real and will likely become the norm as younger, tactless generations of people displace the older segment of the population.

Post #7:

Pushing Fifty said:
... especially as the younger generations that know next to nothing about etiquette displace those of us that know what that term means.

Post #9:

Pushing Fifty said:
...The real kicker is when some kid that can't function without a Smartphone for more than five consecutive minutes doesn't realize that saying, "Beetles have lots of problems and fall apart fast" is exactly the same thing as saying, "Beetles are junk."

I have a 22-year-old son who is a member of this site and you do him and others of his age a disservice with these untrue and unwarranted generalizations which furthermore have no place on the org nor on the Collective. These types of statements are as bad as those on the Vortex.

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Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #11 · May 17, 2015

******, I am referring to an ugly argument I got into over there a while back with a 17-year-old kid, and worse yet, some equally sophomoric friend of that person that sincerely hoped my Beetle would fall apart. Nevertheless, at 55, I have a few twentysomething NB friends myself. However, it's a fact that FB and the Vortex alike cater mostly to younger generations, and it's also a fact that younger people are more likely to be rude. The Org is by far the most civil of these three sites regardless of how old someone is, but it's obvious that some of the Vortexers have found their way to the Collective. It is you who always encourages people to express opinions over there, and yet if I chastise some tactless kid or disagree with someone who likes air-cooled Bugs more than NBs, I get called on it. I'm Patrick Sills.

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Gringo

· #12 · May 17, 2015

You should express what you think/feel but opinion is not fact and should not be expressed as such. Further, by your reasoning, it's okay to post that people over 55 are rude, grumpy, and incapable of learning anything new; that they repeat the same things over and over. I don't think you'd care for that.

You stated that how one says things is important, I agree and think you should look at those 3 statements I quoted of yours. I'm Don Eaton and I'm 59.

Chuckie

· #13 · May 17, 2015

Oh Baby!

The beauty of the Org is that one can choose to look at threads such as this one that start to get out of hand.

I can simply just pass them by.

Sure different opinions are present. Of course some "Facts" can be disputed and passionate feelings and discussions will occur. The nice part is that I can skip this thread from now on where on the facebook page this stuff gets smeared in your face and you can only do something about it afterwords.

Hopefully passionate discussions will continue amongst those who want to participate.

At least I don't have to worry about getting in trouble over here for some statements that can and have been taken out of context.

Chuckie

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Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 17, 2015

As you know, I'm one of the most passionate water-Beetle people out there, and many of my comments are emotionally driven. I also believe it's human nature to get upset and/or disappointed when someone doesn't agree with what one says. I'm a very sensitive person and take negative comments about our cars very hard. I suppose I can be a rude, grumpy middle-aged guy set in my old ways, but I only come off like that after someone has angered me, or as Sylvester Stallone once said, drew first blood.... In the case of the Vortex, this was a bunch of air-cooled people about a year and a half ago, and in the latter Collective case, the teenager above, and over the years, many Vortexers and Car Lounge posters in the mix. You're right that I shouldn't generalize, but it's very hard not to at times. I'll watch this in the future, but still plan to scale back from FB and focus on this site. I've never posted on the Tex since that incident, and likely never will again.

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squeebug

· #15 · May 18, 2015

Pushing Fifty said:
And a lot of nice people like you are. But because the Collective is at least 10 times larger, I've found more rude people over there in 9 months than in 9 years as an Orger. To say that these qualities can be found even in Beetle owners is disappointing to say the least, but the bigger the site, the greater the odds, especially as the younger generations that know next to nothing about etiquette displace those of us that know what that term means.

I have to agree, I think there are a lot of, shall we say vortex quality "members" on the FB page.

I've been trying to rarely frequent the FB page and have been attempting to post here more. I gotta get back into post hoe mode like in years past :lol:

Chuckie

· #16 · May 18, 2015

Yeah!

I applaude the efforts of everyone posting on the org more often.....To a point.

This is a great place for New Beetle and Beetle information. It's laid out well so that it's far easier to get the info you want/need than over on that playground on FB.

I just hope that the Org, while filling up with more people and posts, doesn't get as stupid as facebook is. I don't care where you are checking in from while walking your dog. I don't want or need to know where you are taking a leak or having lunch unless it pertains to a water bug event.

The facebook group was a good idea until it opened up to anyone who had ever seen a New Beetle. Then it started to get flooded with posts that had no relevance to it's topic: and that's fine if that is what the groups founder's intended.

I hope the Org. doesn't go down that path as well. It would be nice to have/keep a resource that was clean and easily navigated, filled with useful information to use without having all the silly off topic banter that kills most groups like this.

At least the silly stuff here is mostly organized into it's own threads so it can be easily skipped over.

Chuckie

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Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #17 · May 18, 2015

The above is by far the first and foremost reason I prefer the good old Org over FB. I'm showing my grumpy age here, but what I find difficult to deal with in this relatively new century is how the art of communication has drastically changed. In some ways, it's great. For example, messages sure beat snail-mail letters, but I still think much casual, off-topic conversation should be kept between close acquaintances as opposed to being broadcast on a site viewed by millions of people. Remember phone calls? Or dialect between two actual people face-to-face?

AlphaMog

· #18 · May 18, 2015

I agree with most of what is being said here. There are many times that I see helpful posts on the Collective only to think back a couple months later, "that was cool. What was that again?" only to never find it again. Whereas here on the Org it's really easy to find older posts.

The Org is so helpful for me as I am new to the Beetle, and even new to cars in general. This site has saved me so much money, time and hassle. The Collective, while helpful sometimes, also has an abundance of silly little posts that aren't really relevant. There are always posts that would be better off on their own personal Facebook page. I'm trying to get more into the Org and scale back from Facebook.

I'm Zoe McIntyre, and I'm 22 years old. I hope I don't fall into the "rude youngen" category.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

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squeebug

· #19 · May 18, 2015

Chuckie said:
I applaude the efforts of everyone posting on the org more often.....To a point.

This is a great place for New Beetle and Beetle information. It's laid out well so that it's far easier to get the info you want/need than over on that playground on FB.

I just hope that the Org, while filling up with more people and posts, doesn't get as stupid as facebook is. I don't care where you are checking in from while walking your dog. I don't want or need to know where you are taking a leak or having lunch unless it pertains to a water bug event.

The facebook group was a good idea until it opened up to anyone who had ever seen a New Beetle. Then it started to get flooded with posts that had no relevance to it's topic: and that's fine if that is what the groups founder's intended.

I hope the Org. doesn't go down that path as well. It would be nice to have/keep a resource that was clean and easily navigated, filled with useful information to use without having all the silly off topic banter that kills most groups like this.

At least the silly stuff here is mostly organized into it's own threads so it can be easily skipped over.

Chuckie

I too hope we don't end up with that. I don't know that we will, but I can see a few areas where the rules and way things have been done are already lacking quite a bit. Unfortunately I don't think much any of that will change so long as AutoGuide owns the forum. Starting a new org would be great, and I'm beyond willing, but there are a great number of challenges it would face to get going. Lack of content is the biggest.

Having basically no admin support really hurts the org is so many ways. Half the mods don't really frequent the site anymore, fortunately the ones that do are good, although it's not nearly the same as having full admin. I've tried getting info from AG about the org and as no surprise they have nothing to say.

Pushing Fifty

Discussion Starter · #20 · May 18, 2015

AlphaMog said:
I'm Zoe McIntyre, and I'm 22 years old. I hope I don't fall into the "rude youngen" category.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

I was still fresh from being ticked off about an individual exchange of words with a Collective member when I wrote those posts above, and ****** is right: I shouldn't have stereotyped. New Beetle people come in all ages, and so do rude people. I've found next to none on this site, and I've been here since 2006.

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