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Discussion Starter #1
Got this in an email from one of my many "red" friends (don't have a lot of "blue" ones, lol), so typical of the causes of so many of our economic woes today...

"General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division
from Waukesha, Wis., to Beijing. In addition to moving the headquarters,
the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65
engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made
$5.1 billion in the United States last year. but paid no taxes-the same
company that employs more people overseas than it does in the united
States.
So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff
Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is
supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him
in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs.
If this doesn't show you the total lack of leadership of this President,
I don't know what does. Please pass this information to others and think
about it before you buy a GE product."

Confirmed it on Snopes
snopes.com: General Electric China Move

Hope, especially since this is healthcare related that they can do a better job than we see with NB Chinese knock-off "OEM" crap.

M.
 

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Things like these make me furious and make me question not only the leadership of this country but also it's future. If we keep on going we will only see the very poor and the very rich and eventually that will lead to anarchy. Companies outsource because they can cut laborcosts by up to 70% which in turn raises their profits by Billions. Of course they don't care if Americans in this country suffer with skyrocketing unemployment and families having to struggle just to make ends meet. Don't even get me started on Healthcare costs. They go up every single year and the benefits decrease. Large companies are worse than smaller ones. Our so called large company just took away our PPO plan and is only offering a High Deductible plan which changes the plan from a 500 deductible to a $1250.00 per person deductible plus from an 80/20 plan to a 75/25 plan. That means that the first 1250 dollars in healthcare costs come out of your own pocket and after that they only pay 75% and you still have to pay 25%. Not only that but the health insurance premiums are going up. So you are paying a higher premium for a much crappier coverage. What the Hell? Healthcare costs in our country are the highest in the world and totally out of control.
What the heck happened to this "Obama care"? which was suppose to make healthcare affordable? I only have seen healthcare cost rising and there isn't any indication that this will ever change but only get worse, a lot worse.
 

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5/23/10 <3
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We have been outsourcing for years, its not just because of things Obama has done. And as for the Universal Health Care, I think a lot of it doesn't go into effect until 2014 (?). I know it wasn't all supposed to kick in right away. And you have parts of it being contested in the courts right now.

This topic may be a bit controversial for the Misc. Hoo-Haa. There is a Hot Topic section that sadly hasn't been used in over a year :( It was really where this type of thing would be and lots of good, spirited debates were seen there (politics, religion, and any other hot-button topic). I'm all for good, informed discussion and debates, but Hoo-Haa is not really the place for hot button issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
This topic may be a bit controversial for the Misc. Hoo-Haa. There is a Hot Topic section that sadly hasn't been used in over a year :( It was really where this type of thing would be and lots of good, spirited debates were seen there (politics, religion, and any other hot-button topic). I'm all for good, informed discussion and debates, but Hoo-Haa is not really the place for hot button issues.
I didn't post it up for a "hot" discussion, but really was unaware of the other thread. And really, what is there to debate? This is just another example of "plain sucks!" and wasn't directed at Obama, or meant to be a political issue.

Deb is certainly welcome to move it, however! Since I can't, now that posts have been added.

Btw, my condolences to those GE employees in Waukesha who are going to joining the ranks of the unemployed. Must be a major employer there and I can't imagine there are a lot of other job opportunities available.

@ IndyTom

The revolution is coming. I see no other way to fix a system that is so broken and corrupt. If I were younger and had more energy I'd be leading it!

M.
 

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5/23/10 <3
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They *say* they don't anticipate any US job losses from this, but we'll see I guess. Yes, it sucks. But its been going on for a long time, and I don't see it going away any time soon.

I'm hoping the Occupy movement is the start of showing politicians from across the aisle that us Americans are getting sick of how things are being done and that major changes need to be taken. The poor are getting poorer and getting forgotten. The rich are getting richer. The middle class is struggling. This shouldn't be happening in our country! But I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot of good ideas coming to the forefront from anyone. There isn't going to be a quick fix though, sadly.
 

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I didn't post it up for a "hot" discussion, but really was unaware of the other thread. And really, what is there to debate? This is just another example of "plain sucks!" and wasn't directed at Obama, or meant to be a political issue.

Deb is certainly welcome to move it, however! Since I can't, now that posts have been added.

Btw, my condolences to those GE employees in Waukesha who are going to joining the ranks of the unemployed. Must be a major employer there and I can't imagine there are a lot of other job opportunities available.

@ IndyTom

The revolution is coming. I see no other way to fix a system that is so broken and corrupt. If I were younger and had more energy I'd be leading it!

M.
YEAH, MORAV for President :D

Or better yet: Ron Jeremy. You're gonna get screwed anyway, might as well get screwed by a Pro. :D

(I saw that on Facebook) ;)
 

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They *say* they don't anticipate any US job losses from this, but we'll see I guess. Yes, it sucks. But its been going on for a long time, and I don't see it going away any time soon.

I'm hoping the Occupy movement is the start of showing politicians from across the aisle that us Americans are getting sick of how things are being done and that major changes need to be taken. The poor are getting poorer and getting forgotten. The rich are getting richer. The middle class is struggling. This shouldn't be happening in our country! But I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot of good ideas coming to the forefront from anyone. There isn't going to be a quick fix though, sadly.
The OCCUPY movement is a bunch spoiled kids and unemployed bums who instead of peacfully protesting something tehy believe in, are taking over, trashing as they go and causing trouble for everyone. The Tea Party is an activist organization that is effective in protesting and getting their point across as Americans should. IMHO!
 

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5/23/10 <3
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Have you actually paid attention to Occupy and done research on it? Its a lot of middle class, employed people who are tired of the way that things are being run. Lots of veterans are behind the movement, all ages, races, genders, etc. Its not jut spoiled kids and unemployed bums. They are being peaceful and holding their ground. Do your research. Go to a rally. Don't just go by what Fox tells you.

And this is why this type of topic is an issue. It will always turn political. I was simply referencing a movement which has taken shape in response to MORAV's "The revolution is coming". It was not meant to be a political reference, but now it has turned that way. Is Occupy ideal? Not at all. But its certainly getting people's attention.
 

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Where is home ....
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The OCCUPY movement is a bunch spoiled kids and unemployed bums who instead of peacfully protesting something tehy believe in, are taking over, trashing as they go and causing trouble for everyone. The Tea Party is an activist organization that is effective in protesting and getting their point across as Americans should. IMHO!
Wait ... hell no. HELL NO!
Thank you for believing in the lame-stream media. Seriously. Have you been out there to see what is going on? Turn OFF your TV and start reading blogs, and attending these movements. Gods... this just irritates me.

Why am I supporting the Occupy movement?

1. Parents are suppose to be retiring (dad is 60, my mom is 55). BOTH have worked their ASSES off raising three kids. My dad STILL goes to work climbing ladders two stories up lifting blinds so heavy that he has to take either my mom, me or my brother along for help ... so that he can make $400 to put food on the table or to pay for his work van to get a new tie-rod. Said van is also their ONLY mode of transportation.

2. Said parents do NOT have health care. Why? It costs too much.
- My dad has high blood pressure, gout, possibly had a stroke over the weekend (plus other times we think he has had one), and has colon problems (his mom died from colon cancer), he has strange moles on his arms that he cuts off himself with an exacto knife, his eyes are going bad, and he might be getting Alzheimer (can't remember watching a movie the night before).
- My mom has a slipped disk, has had surgery on her neck (so she SHOULDN'T be lifting anything), is having a hard time seeing, and gets pains in her back that eventually cause her back to go out.
Health Care is a MUST in this country. People like my parents, who will die in their home, from whatever ailment ... they deserve better than that. I don't want to see my parents die in horrible excruciating pain.

3. People are losing their houses
Yes, people over bought. Yes, they should have paid attention. But, why is it that banks can get bailouts ... but, the three people on my parents block that have lost their house in the last year cannot?

4. Student loan debt has hit a trillion $$:
- My loan debt. I owe Sallie Mae/Goldman Sachs $145,000. Yes, $145,000. Fuuuck. Can I buy a house? No. Can I fix my car to take me to my job that is 80 miles away from my parents house? No. Can I get a different car to replace my current one? No. Cannot get a loan. Will a bank consolidate my loans so that PERHAPS SOMEDAY I can lower my interest rate/payment? No. My INTEREST only payment is $750 per month. In July of 2012, my payment goes up to $1,200. I make $2,800 per month. $400 goes towards gas to get to that 80 mile away job.
- Because of my student loan debt (the ONLY debt I have), I cannot EVER take care of my parents the way they took care of me. When it comes time for them to have someone take care of them, there will be NO ONE. I have no savings, neither do they. They've used whatever LITTLE savings they DID have in earlier years, trying to keep their house.

5. Outsourcing (as stated by the OP):
Want a job? Move to frakin' China/India/Taiwan ... they are the new World Power. We f'ed that up for ourselves. We (the Occupy People) want that to stop. We want jobs to come back here. This is just self explanatory....

-- There is no future.
The Occupy movement is trying to correct these things by YELLING. People have tried talking, people have tried negotiating and being 'nice'. Now, the only way is to yell. To camp out on streets/parks/sidewalks. To make the voice of the poor (because that is what we are compared to the days of my grandparents) heard. The sick, the tired, the cold and the elderly ... they need this. The young people need this.

And ... the Occupy movement is NOT just young hippies that want a bail out. No. We just want an equal chance at having a life that we don't have to live pay check to pay check. An opportunity to have our kids go to school (without it costing so much), an opportunity to feel happy and secure.

I really believe that the Tea Party and the Occupy Movement should join in together. Become one ... lets not divide the country even more. If two sides could come together... imagine what could be done? If Congress and the House cannot even meet in the middle on things to help out their people... what are we to do?
 

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And I hate to say it but ... start up a Twitter account and follow some of the people that are at the occupy movement. Read what they say and watch their videos.

In MOST of the videos I have seen the protesters are just standing/sitting there and the cops are starting up the ruckus. Yes, there are videos that I have said, "Serious? That protester is over stepping" ... but, the people that I have seen pepper sprayed, beaten ... just standing their. No. They didn't deserve that.

NYPD Police Pepper Spray Occupy Wall Street Protesters (Anthony Balogna) - YouTube
 

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My dads dad took his own life. Even though my dad says that he won't do the same ... he hints at it. He puts his finger to his head (like a gun) and makes the sound of a gun as he 'pulls the trigger'. I don't want this to be the only way my parents get an 'out'. By doing themselves in. It shouldn't be like that ... but, it is the only way out for so many. ...

 

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Wait ... hell no. HELL NO!
Thank you for believing in the lame-stream media. Seriously. Have you been out there to see what is going on? Turn OFF your TV and start reading blogs, and attending these movements. Gods... this just irritates me.

Why am I supporting the Occupy movement?

1. Parents are suppose to be retiring (dad is 60, my mom is 55). BOTH have worked their ASSES off raising three kids. My dad STILL goes to work climbing ladders two stories up lifting blinds so heavy that he has to take either my mom, me or my brother along for help ... so that he can make $400 to put food on the table or to pay for his work van to get a new tie-rod. Said van is also their ONLY mode of transportation.

2. Said parents do NOT have health care. Why? It costs too much.
- My dad has high blood pressure, gout, possibly had a stroke over the weekend (plus other times we think he has had one), and has colon problems (his mom died from colon cancer), he has strange moles on his arms that he cuts off himself with an exacto knife, his eyes are going bad, and he might be getting Alzheimer (can't remember watching a movie the night before).
- My mom has a slipped disk, has had surgery on her neck (so she SHOULDN'T be lifting anything), is having a hard time seeing, and gets pains in her back that eventually cause her back to go out.
Health Care is a MUST in this country. People like my parents, who will die in their home, from whatever ailment ... they deserve better than that. I don't want to see my parents die in horrible excruciating pain.

3. People are losing their houses
Yes, people over bought. Yes, they should have paid attention. But, why is it that banks can get bailouts ... but, the three people on my parents block that have lost their house in the last year cannot?

4. Student loan debt has hit a trillion $$:
- My loan debt. I owe Sallie Mae/Goldman Sachs $145,000. Yes, $145,000. Fuuuck. Can I buy a house? No. Can I fix my car to take me to my job that is 80 miles away from my parents house? No. Can I get a different car to replace my current one? No. Cannot get a loan. Will a bank consolidate my loans so that PERHAPS SOMEDAY I can lower my interest rate/payment? No. My INTEREST only payment is $750 per month. In July of 2012, my payment goes up to $1,200. I make $2,800 per month. $400 goes towards gas to get to that 80 mile away job.
- Because of my student loan debt (the ONLY debt I have), I cannot EVER take care of my parents the way they took care of me. When it comes time for them to have someone take care of them, there will be NO ONE. I have no savings, neither do they. They've used whatever LITTLE savings they DID have in earlier years, trying to keep their house.

5. Outsourcing (as stated by the OP):
Want a job? Move to frakin' China/India/Taiwan ... they are the new World Power. We f'ed that up for ourselves. We (the Occupy People) want that to stop. We want jobs to come back here. This is just self explanatory....

-- There is no future.
The Occupy movement is trying to correct these things by YELLING. People have tried talking, people have tried negotiating and being 'nice'. Now, the only way is to yell. To camp out on streets/parks/sidewalks. To make the voice of the poor (because that is what we are compared to the days of my grandparents) heard. The sick, the tired, the cold and the elderly ... they need this. The young people need this.

And ... the Occupy movement is NOT just young hippies that want a bail out. No. We just want an equal chance at having a life that we don't have to live pay check to pay check. An opportunity to have our kids go to school (without it costing so much), an opportunity to feel happy and secure.

I really believe that the Tea Party and the Occupy Movement should join in together. Become one ... lets not divide the country even more. If two sides could come together... imagine what could be done? If Congress and the House cannot even meet in the middle on things to help out their people... what are we to do?


I feel for your parents present condition. However my parents are not any better off and I am not going to get into the details. There are some things in this world you must accept. The number one thing is, Life Is Not Fair!. Another is, there are consequenceses for the choices we make in life. I am sure that both our parents would have changed some things to make their life easier knowing what they know now. This is the United States of America and you are free and have the right to fail. You do not have right to fail and expect your neighbor to take care of you when you do. We are a compassionate society and have many NON GOVERNMENT organizations to help the needy within the community. The U.S. constitution and it's amendments spell out our rights and freedoms, I hate to be the one to tell you, health care and education are not in there. These things are personal choices whether to have them or not ,like owning a home, whitch is not in there either. So DEAL WITH IT!

**** I cannot afford the car I want, but that does not mean I won't in the future with hard work and effort. If I had the time I would explain how the government kills the ecconomic engine in this country and forces companys over seas and keep there profits there also, ****
 

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5/23/10 <3
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Really? Really?

Do you know how many people live below the poverty line? We're at over 15% of the country (over 46 MILLION people). That is just entirely unacceptable. This is the USA. This should not be happening. And its not all just "bums" or people leaching off of the system. A lot of that is good, very hard-working people who got laid off or just can't get enough work. I grew up in that demographic, my parents are still a part of it. Yes, they use community organizations, but you know what? That's not a paycheck. Its not allowing them to pay their bills. They work their butts off and always have and still can't get above that threshold. They've also stopped spending on anything frivolous at all. And they aren't alone in this. That is NOT stimulating the economy and getting things back on track. I should also note, my parents have NEVER received any public assistance. They would give anything for health care though...the last time they had it, it was costing them almost $1000 per MONTH for just the two of them. Health care is far to heavily subsidized...if it wasn't, people might care a bit more.

There are also a lot of very responsible people who are now in trouble. My parents saved up and managed to buy their first home 5 years ago. They were offered a loan amount of twice of what they got one for, but they knew better. They were fine for a few years. My dad is self-employed. They live in a rural area. The economy crashed and hit their area hard. Now they are struggling, as are many others in their community.

I was fortunate and learned a lot about handling money from their situation. I never take any dollar for granted. I was also fortunate that I had a great work ethic and therefore got through my undergrad with no debt (actually made some money in the end), and very little with my Masters degree. But I'm not earning much right now. Is it because I want to earn little? Heck no! I should be earning a decent amount more, but so is the economy. I'm happy to have a job straight out of school so I won't complain. But don't attack DP just because she doesn't have a well paying job and student loans. I know she's been endlessly searching for better paying jobs. My undergrad was over $100k. Its certainly not unheard of. If you don't go to a state school, that level of debt is likely. And not all state schools offer what you need to get a good education. The costs though are completely ridiculous and need to be brought down.

You have no idea what everyone's entire circumstances are. Please stop judging and pretending that you know.
 

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Thread re-opened on the condition that future posts stay on the topic and off the person making them.

Got a question, hit the PM button.
 
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