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Discussion Starter #1
My beetle has one of those stickers from "the [infamous] oil change place" reminding you when to change the oil and where to take it.
It appears they used the cheapest 10w-30 weight oil known to man and a yellow penzoil filter. Then they expect you to come back every 3,000 miles and repeat the process.
Well that oil is half way done and figured I might want to change it a little early since its of an unknown spec.

Now I normally use 5w-40 synthetic Rotella in everything (unless there is a crazy good sale on mobil1).
I see that the Rotella does not have a VW spec.
Now is that VW spec intended to protect the mechanical parts of the engine or is it to protect the emissions system?

Can I use the Rotella in the 1.8t engine?
I use the rotella my 22:1 C/R diesel engine that runs 14 pounds of boost and the oil and engine seem to get along well.

I like having 1 oil for everything because I am boring like that. But I will add an oil if I must.
 

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Looking over the Shell/Rotella website; it seems the oil is geared towards diesel and commercial vehicles. Now, whether it is "ok" for your VW 1.8T; you might email or call their customer service dept and see if they have oil that meets the VW specification. Because of the special requirements of the 1.8T and the known issue of coking and sludge problems, clogging the pick up tube... I would get some VW spec oil. It isn't hard to find and I would stick with what VW recommends.

CONSUMER QUESTIONS & COMMENTS:
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When the 1.8L New Beetles came out; the Volkswagen 502 specification was what was standard at the time; the easiest oil to find that met that specification was:

0W-40 Synthetic Oil | Mobil 1™ 0W-40

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx

The OW-40 actually has the Volkswagen 502 spec; printed on the oil bottle itself for proof it meets Volkswagens oil standard spec. Using Mobil's online recommendation feature; it is still crecommended for your car:



Current Vehicle:
Year: 2001
Make: Volkswagen
Model: Beetle
Engine Type: 4cyl. 1.8Liter Turbocharged

Mobil 1 0W-40
Mobil 1 0W-40 is an advanced full synthetic motor oil that helps extend engine life by reducing engine wear and oil breakdown. Mobil 1 0W-40 provides outstanding performance under all operating conditions and meets or exceeds the warranty requirements of many leading car builders.


I found this at most auto parts stores in New Mexico; even at Walmart.

I have since moved to Amsoil European oil and have been very happy with the results.


Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (meets the VW 502 spec)

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...-5w-40-synthetic-motor-oil-efm/?code=EFMQT-EA

The Amsoil; has a 10k miles service internval; so, that is also a nice feature, in addition to the amazing smoothness, higher revs, and reduced friction this incredible synthetic oil provides!

There are other brands out there but again; Mobil 1 was the easiest for me to find: Autozone, Walmart had it... when I was using it last (it has been a number of years).

Here is some other info; that you might find useful.


http://www.blauparts.com/vw-oils/how-to-find-recommended-vw-oil-type.html#vwbeetleoil

http://home.comcast.net/~popov1/vwoil.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I didn't know the 1.8t was a slug maker.
I looked up rotella T6 and a couple typical 502 spec oils on BITOG and it looks like a 502 spec oil would make a good diesel oil.

Looks like typical non 502 and non diesel spec oils have roughly half the detergent of your typical diesel engine oil and 502 spec oil.

My guess would be that "cheapest 10w-30 known to man" from the oil change place would fall into the non diesel and non-502 spec category.

I think I will change the oil next week.
 

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Any turbo motor is hard on oil. The 1.8t is not necessarily a sludge motor, but the 1.8t were known for problems with the oil pickup getting clogged up.

Ask me how I know, and I am an original owner!

I believe that turbo coking along with high crankcase contamination due to soft thermostats causing cold running engines contributed to the problem. Water vapor along with gasoline & ethanol in the crankcase with cool oil temps caused the problems. What appeared to clog the oil pickup looked like sandy carbon particles.

Remember that detergents are not solvents. Detergents are meant to keep dirt in suspension so the oil filter can hopefully remove/trap the dirt particles. I also use a Mobil 1 M1-301 oversize oil filter and Castrol 5W40 oil for my engine, NOW!
 

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5/23/10 <3
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The 1.8t in the Passat was definitely known to have sludge problems. And any other 1.8t can be if the wrong oil is used and the wrong intervals used (too long between changes). I would use only synth in the types that Vw recommends and do 5k oil changes. I use Castrol edge 5w40 on mine. I used it in my 2.0 as well. I have 130k on my GTI and its going strong. I also use the oversized Passat filters. Holds a full 5 qts with it.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I like oversized oil filters. I always put the biggest oil filter that there is room for, no matter the vehicle. (I stop short of mail ordering specialty filters)
In the stores I some times find the bigger oil filter is cheaper :confused: .
Normally I do this by opening boxes of bigger filters and compairing seal diameter and threads.
I like the idea of just grabbing one for a passat. Saves me up to an hour of oil filter digging.

The oil in the bug now (from the oil change place) has 1500 miles on it and it looks like its been through hell.

"Sandy black particles" sounds like rust.

I had a sandy black particle clog the oil restrictor fitting on my suburbans turbo. It cost me a holset HE351VE turbocharger.
Now the turbos have their own oil filter.
Holset Turbo Oiling - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
 

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using 5w40 in a 1.8t engine is probably one of the ...... things i have ever heard of. but using an oversized filter probably takes the cake.

X-VW mechanic here, and also x-store manager of Valovoline instant oil change. so.... i kinda know my ****.

imagine trying to push a crayola marker through a Mcdonalds straw. silly huh?

now imagine filling up a swimming pool with a 2 liter bottle. even more silly huh?

those examples are what you are doing to your car. im surprised your engine hasnt given you the bird and said see ya later..

not only have VW engineers spend countless amounts of hours determining what oil to use, but they have perfected it. 40 weight oil is a heavy oil when the car first starts up. its used in Disel engines for a reason. our 1.8t's are FAST FAST FAST and need a thinner oil to get to the top of the block in a quick way. molassas doesnt make a very quick anything, and neither does 40 weight oil.

a thicker weight oil effects the oil pump because it takes longer and more energy to push the thicker weight oil throught the pencil sized diameter of the oil lines. why make your engine work harder to do something it already has to do? the same as cholesterol in our veins. the engine is a great comaparison to the human body in a lot of ways.

as far as the larger oil filter... WTF? if anything i would go smaller. now you are putting more of the oil (which lubricates your engine) in an object that will hold it away from the engine for a longer time?? NO. and then your comback might be.... PUT MORE OIL IN? no again. again, making the car work harder.

you are doing nothing but robbing HP from your engine and posssibly gas MPG as well. your engine is working harder and im surprised it hasnt failed.

i hope this helps you decide on what oil you should use, but i would hope you would go with VW specs on this. they are the mechanical engineers that designed this engine. and if you have a mechanical/petrolum engineering degree then sorry if i offended you. :D

-jd
 

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The Castrol Edge 5w40 is VW spec oil, as are many other 40 weight oils, otherwise I wouldn't be running it. I've had 0 issues with it. Just drive the car gently until its warmed up.
 

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right, but it says to use 5w30 oil in the owners manual and the only oil the dealerships are supposed to use is 5w30 for the 1.8t :bigthumb:

-jd
 

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40 weight oil is a heavy oil when the car first starts up. its used in Disel engines for a reason. our 1.8t's are FAST FAST FAST and need a thinner oil to get to the top of the block in a quick way. molassas doesnt make a very quick anything, and neither does 40 weight oil.


-jd

007, cold oil is the weight of the first number, not the second. So a 0w30 and a 0w40 oil are the same viscosity when cold. That's why it's called a multi-weight oil. Just saying.

Bill.
 

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right, but it says to use 5w30 oil in the owners manual and the only oil the dealerships are supposed to use is 5w30 for the 1.8t :bigthumb:

-jd
Interesting! My owner's manual states to use 5W40 and only use 5W30 when 5W40 is not available..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I didn't take the bug to the oil change place, previous owner did. I just bought the car about a month ago.

you are doing nothing but robbing HP from your engine and posssibly gas MPG as well.
I read a technical paper published by man diesel on the subject.
They claim the difference in fuel economy between 10w-30 weight oil and 15w-40 weight oil is 0.9%
Since there is almost no difference between between 5w-30 Vs. 10w-30 and 5w-40 Vs. 15w-40 when the oils are hot the same would apply to compairing 5w-30 weight oil to 5w-40 oil in the MPG test.
I would bet that the thicker oil effects engine horsepower about the same amount.

Man also claimed they found higher wear rates with the thinner oil.
 

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I am not on a computer, on my phone, so minimum comments.

Anything oil related on forums NEVER ends well.

I do not have my owners manual handy, even it I did, I likely would still be running 5W40. With the turbo cars and the extra heat they produce, the 40 weight likely will fair batter than the 30 weight. Yes there is an oil cooler, however, I would still be the oil gets flash heated by the turbo at times. Unsure what the baseline oil temps run, but I expect them to be at least 220F+ depending on where it would be measured. It is really the higher temp shear strength is important for high RPM protection.

Cold start performance should be close to the same as 5W30.

As for the larger filter and extra oil capacity this should be no issue what so ever, extra oil capacity is not in the oil pan it is in the oil filter. More surface area for filtering, larger housing surface are for added cooling, added oil capacity for additional cooling, added oil capacity for less oil contamination.

I am a FIRM believer that all the 1.8l oil related problems were due to oil contamination. Mostly due to cool running engines because of soft thermostat causing reduced overall oil temps for short trips and during the Winter months to the point that moisture and fuel are not cooked out of the oil properly. When this happens your oil change interval is actually reduced.

Kind of funny that VW likely missed the thermostat issue, but they revised the oil spec for a 5 year old platform. Was the oil spec wrong from the beginning??? I do not think so, but VW was reacting to problems with oil pickups getting clogged. The only reason a motor sludges or has oil related issue is due to oil contamination. The oil was contaminated and not changed often enough for the contamination the oil was subjected to.

Bottom line is oil needs to be clean and filtered. The filter can only remove dirt particles of a specific size. Water vapor, fuel and acids cannot be removed by a filter. Water vapor and fuel needs to be cooked out with heat and crank case ventilation.

Again, everyone likely will have different points of view and opinions. The oil does not really need to meet VW's specs. This is mainly for warranty coverage, after that who are you going to complain to anyway??

Make sure the engine runs at the proper temperature, make sure the auxiliary water pump works properly, use a quality synthetic oil and change the oil as often ad you fell it makes since. For short drives and city driving, suggest less than 5k mile changes, probably 4500 miles, for driving that includes at least 50% highway driving, 7500 miles might be maximum. Keep in mind the location and weather conditions the car is driven under. Winter months where below freezing conditions occur, change the oil more frequently. Mile is also a very poor indicator as to when to change engine oil anyway. Engine hours are better, fuel usage may be better, however, actual engine RPM and average oil temperature would be best.

Again, I am sure there will be different ideas, but everyone needs to understand the conditions the car is operated under and consider this when picking and oil and a change interval.
 

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007, cold oil is the weight of the first number, not the second. So a 0w30 and a 0w40 oil are the same viscosity when cold. That's why it's called a multi-weight oil. Just saying.

Bill.
i know that. i was just commenting on the 40 being too heavy for our cars. maybe i didnt put what i meant correctly.

-jd
 

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Interesting! My owner's manual states to use 5W40 and only use 5W30 when 5W40 is not available..
Checked mine this morning and that's what mine says as well.
 

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Also I would assume a manufacturer would not allow an oil approval if the oil weight did not meet the specific requirement?

Also it is not uncommon for manufacturers to change/revise oil requirements. Not the best approach, but it happens. BMW recently reduced the 15k mile oil change interval to 10k miles. I expect this is due to adding Diesels and twin turbo motors in their most recent models? Mercedes also has recently reduced their oil change intervals as well.

My 2003 BMW M5 has a sticker under the hood AND the owners manual indicated 5W30, BUT all same engines I earlier models spec'ed 10W60. BMW then backpedaled and went back to 10W60. Not sure if this was some foolish marketing persons oversight or what happened??

But now you have conflicting documentation and labeling. Still confusion many years later. Bottom line for the BMW M line is they almost always ran 10W60 in the late 90's into mid 2000's.

Simple thing is to keep an eye on the dipstick, watch the color and darkness, if you do not like the color before the mileage has been reached, change you oil. Oil is way cheaper that engine repairs!

You need to change the oil more often in the colder months if you do no drive far. Getting any car on the highway for more than 1 hour at a time is good.

I just put my car though about 14 hours of highway driving in less than 1 week!
 

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From my old service manager at the dealership,

A lot of dealership use a conventional 5w30, because it needs to meet VW502.00 specification. 5w30 is what we use in Texas because its better for the engines at high heat.

The 2.0 litre 4cylinder and 1.8t calls for a 5w-30 oil, any brand will do, and if it were my car I would use Mobil 1 synthetic, extended drain interval formula, 5W-30. The extended drain interval formulation has a stronger additive package, I would still change it every 5000 miles.

5w oil is many times thicker at start up than 30 weight oil at operating temperature. This is why the new standart for oils is going to be 0w-20 and 0w-30 , most engine wear occurs at start up so proper oil lubrication when engine is cold is the key.

Miss seeing your ugly mug around the shop, come and visit sometime!



that was his response to the "owner manual" comment.

im just going by what our dealership said to do, and also the VW training facility i got trained at. i agree 100% with what he said.

-jd
 

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Everyone needs to understand that the majority of vehicle owners do not have factory training or work at dealerships. The only info that most owners have to go by is the owners manual. I have to assume for the most part that the owners manuals are reasonably correct and accurate.

Many times service training personnel will embellish or add their own opinions. I would to see if any of your official training documents were in disagreement with the owners manuals?

As for high heat climates and running engines hard, I would go toward a slightly heavier hot oil weight. If you have ever had the chance to see what oil temps due under heavy throttle, you might be surprised. Add a turbo oe supercharger and the oil temps spike quickly.
 
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