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Melted Fusebox Findings and Fix

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fusebox
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46K views 82 replies 13 participants last post by  roukyweal20  
#1 ·
The fusebox on my 1.8L T new beetle recently melted and warranted a further look. This issue appears to be pretty common among this and other similar VW's so I've decided to share my findings and what I feel will be a long term solution.

I agree, the problem is excessive heat at the connection interface between the wire terminals and the fuse, not excessive current in the wire (remember the fuse didn't blow and the entire wire isn’t melted). I believe that the root of the problem is that the connection on the non-battery side of the high current (i.e. alternator and interior) fuse loosens slightly over time. This creates increased resistance, which tends to soften the black plastic housing base, reducing clamping pressure which causes even less contact, more resistance and more heat until everything spirals out of control. Poor design from the get go.

The battery side of each of the fuses tightens up with nuts that are all metal-to-metal clamping everything together and remain tight over time. This side never gets hot and never has a problem. The non-battery side of the fuses (towards the rear of the car) is different because they are all individual. Each individual bolt comes up from the bottom, and comes thru holes on the black plastic housing. There is a thin drawn sheet metal washer that is supposed to support the clamp load of the tightened nut. The problem is that this sheet metal washer is totally inadequate to support the clamp load and crushes easily under the clamp load of a tightened nut. (Clamp loads on a tightened M6 nut can be hundreds of pounds) A better design would have been to use a metal screw with a shoulder washer with some thickness that wouldn’t deform under load. I’ve looked at several different manufactures fuse blocks including Genuine VW parts and they all share the same poor design.

Here is what I did to solve the problem. Get a new fuse block. Remove the bottom black plastic flap to expose the back of all of the hex screw heads. You’ll need a small screwdriver to open all the snaps. All of the 10 M6 bolts will need to be increased in length on both sides of the fuse. I left the thin drawn sheet metal washers in place, but added an additional nut on the topside of the plastic so that the fuse now bottoms on the new nuts above the black plastic rather then crushing the drawn sheet metal washers. I used some Loctite on this nut and let it dry before final assembly. You’ll need to add a nut to both sides of the fuse to lift up both sides so that the fuse stays horizontal and isn’t cocked at an angle. The basic idea is that when the nuts are tightened up the top outside nuts clamp the fuses to the wire crimp terminals and then bottom on a new Loctited nuts instead of the flimsy sheet metal washers. All stresses remain in the metal, bolts/nuts/fuses and terminal ends and there’s no load clamping the sheet metal washer or the black plastic base. The nuts will stay tight, Consider adding a split washer in the stack-up to retain clamp pressure.

Pay attention to get the correct size fuses back onto to the correct wires! Different years and models use different fuse values.

Remember when you put the bolts back in they need to be rotationally aligned to fit into their black plastic hex receptacle in order be able to shut everything back together. Pay attention to this otherwise you will go thru multiple assembly cycles like me.

There’s no need to over tighten the nuts. They wont come loose over time. Overtorquing will just spin the hex head in the hex of the plastic base and ruin it making the base hard to close.

To verify everything’s working well once you start the car back up and the alternator is charging the battery with max current, the top of the rear bolt on the fuse block should remain pretty cool to the touch. If it’s too warm there will be a voltage drop between to B+ side of the fuse (front of car) and the eyelet terminal of the alternator wire. Even a .1-volt drop at this junction with 80 amps of charging current will generate 8 watts of heat in a very tiny area. The lower the voltage drops, the cooler and better! Check it over time until you are sure everything is steady state.

As for the three 30 amp flat bade fuses, I’ve also had the same problem with intermittent AC fans and or ABS brakes due too poor electrical contact. My diagnosis is similar. Its not excess current but poor connections caused but cheap terminals that cant support the current loads.
To solve the problem at one point, I out boarded a 30 amp Air Con fan fuse (got my solder iron out), which worked but wasn’t pretty. In my most recent iteration with a new start over fuse block I noted that the sheet metal fingers which contact the 3 fuses were rotated 90 degrees giving substantially better metal contact area with the fuse terminals and so I added silicone grease to the fuse blades and kept the aftermarket manufactures rotated design. If you have the original design (contacts all in the same plane) I suppose I would outboard all three fuses. Not pretty and a lot of soldering work. Make sure you use fuse holders (Amazon has 30 amp fuse holders) which can support the 30 amps…….Volkswagen didn’t. If they did ,we wouldn’t have the problem and there wouldn’t have been class action lawsuits.

(I don’t think you can determine which design you have unless you take it apart)

Good luck, hope my pictures help

Cheap sheet metal stamped washer, which is sandwich thru the black plastic base.
This is the root of the problem because it gets crushed.

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This is basically my fix to add nuts to the top of the sheet metal part. Note Loctite.

Nuts were also added to the battery (front) side to allow the fuses to remain horizontal.

All bolts were exchanged for longer pieces to allow for the extra nuts.
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The bolt hex heads need to be rotationally aligned to fit back in their respective plastic recess’ allowing re-snapping everything back together.

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30 Amp Fuses

My original fuse block I had to outboard the AC fan fuse because of poor contact. Note the orientation of the tangs contacting the fuse blades are all in the same flat plane. It’s a Poor design with minimal metal contact to the fuse blades, hence the need to outboard the fuse.

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Once I had the alternator fuse over-heating issues, I decided to start over with a new fuse block (modified as shown above), which happened to have improved 30 amp discrete fuse holder contacts. This design looked much better with more surface area of metal contact so I decided to keep it with no modifications, except to add silicone grease, however I do periodically do the same voltage drop test I did above. Remember voltage drops generate heat, causing melt down.

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#3 ·
So stupid and so sad that manufacturers do foolish things like this. I have to assume the aftermarket/replacement fuse boxes are worse?

I have never had a problem with mine or had to replace one for anyone else, but I had always said that this was not an over current problem, but a clamp load/connection issue as is pointed out here.

What is really scary is how some "Design Engineer" actually thought the 30 Amp blade sockets were adequate. What a bunch of garbage the narrow side of the terminal grabbing the 30 Amp fuse blade.

Electrical connections need to be tight and very low resistance as mentioned otherwise heat will be a side effect once a big enough load is present.

Once the plastic gets soft with the original design, then the connection just get looser, then hotter, then looser, then hotter. Just a thermal run away nightmare!

Some people believed and suggest the cable from the battery to the fuse box was the problem. Many recommended upgrading this cable. But this clearly is not the source of the melting fuse boxes. While the battery pigtail might be wise to update, my 13 year old NBC still has the original pigtail installed.

Glad someone finally figured out and posted a solution.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Many of us have experienced this issue; it is interesting, to note the different ways, the aftermarket has attempted to address the original design flaws: (e.g: standard motor products/techsmart amd motorking/"no more breaking")):

https://newbeetle.org/forums/questi...s-new-improved-design-solutions-tech-smart.html#/topics/116050?page=1&_k=1cov10

I thought the motorking full contact fuse holders; made particular sense to me, as a logical upgrade compared to the original thin fuse contacts. I have seen where; the small contact point, seems to almost burn though the fuse spade and cause loss of contact, killing things like the a/c compressor function. The aftermarket "fixes"; seem to address many other areas, their engineers saw as weaknesses.

You doubling up on the nuts for the flat fuses; would definitely isolate the tightening aspect from the plastic and create a superior contact point.

Aside from the fuse box itself; checking other wiring and components for problems, failures, makes sense as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDdgs5bqzZg

It would be interesting to do a autopsy on both the techsmart and motorking aftermarket fuse boxes. That way we could see the design/component upgrades they decided to do.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#6 ·
I doubt this is the case, this seems to be a common thought, but I call BS on this. As mentioned, resistance causes heat which causes the plastic to melt.

The cable was not the problem, the loose connection to the fuse box was the problem.

Do not fool yourself.
 
#7 ·
connections



I did this already a year ago on the 30A amp fuses. I bypass the fusebox sockets and hooked up a thicker wire with good solid connectors, used dielectric grease .......and guess what it still got hot and melted after about 4-5 months. I still believe it's too much current flow, then the connections get hot and develop a resistance because of that and keeps getting worst and worst until they melt. But it starts because of too much current flow, that's why a certain circuit or wire get's hot to begin with.
 
#8 ·
1. DO NOT use dieletric grease, it is an INSULATOR!!!!!!!!

Dielectric grease is used IMPROPERLY ALL THE TIME. DO NOT USE IT ON ELECTRICAL CONTACTS. Its main purpose is for spark plug boots so they do not stick the the spark plug.

2. The problem is not too much current flow. If something gets hot, there is TOO MUCH resistance. Something is undersized and/or poor quality.

3. It is true that SOME connections will loosen up over time with thermal changes, often these thermal changes start out small, but depending on the material and how the material was hardened or annealed it may loosen up with heat cycles.

Here is what everyone needs to understand.

A fuse is to PROTECT THE WIRING of a circuit.

A fuse is typically over rated by 25%, so if you have a 10 Amp fuse for a circuit, it should draw no more than 7.5 Amps continuously.

I have seen MANY after market fuse holders that are not designed properly that will not handle the amount of current that may be put through the fuse holder and pigtail. Just because you can plug a 30 Amp fuse in a fuse holder does not mean the fuse holder and pigtail wiring will support the load that is put on the fuse holder and pigtail.

A properly designed and installed circuit/fuse holder will not get significantly warm when the rated amount of current is passed through the parts.

This is really not that difficult, it is just an issue of sub part equipment that is not capable of handling the constant high current that is being applied.

If "too much" current it being drawn or passed though the circuit, the fuse will blow.

Instead of talking about the current flow, MEASURE it. You will not find 35-40 Amps of current passing though the 30 Amp fuse for any length of time.

If the circuit it drawing a level of current that is too close to the fuse value then the item(s) that are being powered need to be closely inspected and replaced if needed.
 
#13 ·
dielectric grease



it's not an insulator , it's mostly to keep moisture away from electrical contacts. everyone in the automotive industry uses it. I did measure the current before and when the fans would come on it was pulling 22-24 amps on that one wire alone that provides power to the FCM and fans. The power formula is voltage (14vdc when alternator is charging) times current 24 is 336 watts.....way too much wattage for those wires and so it get's hot.
 
#10 ·
Bandi, have you noticed; if VW has revised/improved, the alternator charge harness or fuse box, to address this common issue? Many claim the wiring harness; is too small a gauge, for its intended role in the charging system. We can see, that the aftermarket and individual shops; have attempted to address, inherent weaknesses in the original parts designs. Any thoughts? Thanks.
 
#12 ·
I don't believe anything has been revised in the fuse panel design, it just seems to be a bad combination of things that can cause this to happen.

After seeing a car with a "crispy" fuse panel, the first thing I do is check the resistance of the lead to the alternator. There shouldn't really be any on such a heavy gauge of wire. If there is, I replace the lead (and the fuse panel). I've yet to have a car come back a second time with a crispy fuse panel again.

I don't think the gauge of harness is an issue at all, I have nearly 700,000 on my car with the original fuse panel and alternator lead, and my previous alternator (which was the original one) ended its life in a dramatic manner a couple year ago, by shorting its internal windings to the housing- nothing caught fire, the fuse panel didn't melt, the lead was fine.

And Jfoj,
I work on about 100 VWs a week, so I see all kinds of interesting things. Sadly I don't have time to check every single car I work on for a voltage drop between the fuse panel and alternator, or for a temperature difference, but I always check the fuse panel for damage on these older cars as it's a great way to prevent things from going up in smoke.
 
#22 ·
Electic fans

It appears to me that when the electric fans get old they start dragging because of all the brush dust inside and in the process start using up too much current and get hot and then loose connection and battery corrosion sure doesn't help. Do you agree with that Mr. Master VW Mechanic Bandi?
I disassembled & repaired both of my fans and a whole lot of brush dust came out. You can feel the fans dragging when you spin by hand, clean and repair and them verify that they spin freely. Measure the current before and after folks so you can verify if you actually fixed something or not.
 
#24 ·
It appears to me that when the electric fans get old they start dragging because of all the brush dust inside and in the process start using up too much current and get hot and then loose connection and battery corrosion sure doesn't help. Do you agree with that Mr. Master VW Mechanic Bandi?
I disassembled & repaired both of my fans and a whole lot of brush dust came out. You can feel the fans dragging when you spin by hand, clean and repair and them verify that they spin freely. Measure the current before and after folks so you can verify if you actually fixed something or not.
Brush dust, corrosion on the shaft (which sometimes splits the plastic in the hub of the fan blade) and bearing wear seem to be what kills the fans- the bearings sometimes wear to the point where the fan starts to hit the plastic housing- that can also be caused by an imbalanced fan, or at least that certainly accelerates the bearing wear. I've still got both original fans in my car after nearly 700,000 km, even basic maintenance like blasting the centers out with an air nozzle and spraying a bit of contact cleaner inside every summer seems to help.
 
#23 ·
Even if the fan(s) start to consume too much current, at some point the fuse should be the weak link in the chain, the wiring and connectors/connections should not be getting hot.

This is all foolishness thinking that meltdown should be expected.
 
#26 ·
electronics



dude? what school of electronics did you go to? The wires are getting hot because they were not designed to handle this amount of current/wattage and then causes the connections to get loose because of the heat. If you look at bassman12's pictures you can see that he modified the fans connections with soldered and thicker wires. :p
 

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#28 ·
fuse

on my schematic for the 2003 1.8t turbo it shows both fuses feed into the fan control module and The 180 also connects to the thermal switch mounted on the radiator bottom corner for the fans. The 164 fuse also feeds the third speed relay. I agree design deficiency
if only VW corp. would agree......LOL
 
#29 ·
I do think there are MANY variations of these cars over the long production cycle.

I am still amazed with the number of different engine option even in the same displacement/family.

I think this is more of a "German" thing as I see a lot of crazy variations even in the BMW models I deal with.
 
#30 ·
Had my first fuse box issue finally show up.

14 year old original fuse box, not a major melt down, problem was with the cooling fan fuse. Cooling fans and AC was intermittent. When I wiggled the fan fuse with the AC engaged, key on, but engine not running, the cooling fans would run.

Noticed a slight bit of black on 1/2 of the fuse, but no major melting or burning.

Removed the original fuse box and opened it up, found the STUPID VW female terminals that only connect to the fuse blade at 90 degrees and the width of the fuse blade thickness.

14 years of constant thermal cycling caused the "V" groove in the female portion to finally loosen up. DUMB ASS VW DESIGN, but it did last 14 years.

After seeing the OE fuse box opened up and the necked washers and the type of glass reinforced plastic and comparing it to the pictures of the aftermarket fuse box in the beginning of this thread, I WOULD NOT recommend an aftermarket fuse box at all. If you do choose an aftermarket fuse box, you MUST perform the bolt mod the OP demonstrated!

I choose to make a similar modification to the original fuse box by installing a heavy duty 30 Amp ATO pigtailed fuse holder. With some extra effort I was able to locate the fuse holder inside and underneath the fuse box cover.

I used my 1/4 drive torque wrench to make sure the nuts for the fuses were all properly tightened down.

I can say 100% the problem is not with the fan(s) drawing too much current causing the fan fuse problem in the fuse box, this is just a STUPID VW design on the way the male blades of the fuses have VERY little surface area contact AND very little mechanical force on the fuse blades. The fact that these tend to last 10-15 years means the design is ALMOST good enough, but not quite.

The problem with the larger pigtail feed to the fuse box overheating is a VERY different problem not related to the fan fuse problem.

Either install an OE replacement fuse box, or modify the fan fuse with a heavy duty ATO pigtailed fuse holder. I assume repair shops will go with the OE fuse box route due to many reasons. I WOULD NOT even entertain an aftermarket fuse box even if they upgraded the ATO fuse contacts. You will have to spend additional time and money to perform the longer bolt mod the OP did to his aftermarket fuse box.
 
#31 ·
current

The heavy duty ATO pigtailed fuse holder can withstand the amount of current the fans are drawing that's why it works better and does not get as hot. The thicker the wire the more current it can handle. Simple basic DC electronics. glad we were able to agree on something..LOL:D
 
#32 ·
The problem is the stupid perpendicular female ATO fuse socket design that VW chose, clearly someone without any practical electrical background did not design or review the design of the fuse box.

Again, it lasted approximately 14 years, but if the car was located in a hotter climate I would guess the problem would have shown up earlier.

I would be very careful about any aftermarket fuse boxes after looking at the washers used in the aftermarket fuse box, again, something designed by someone that has absolutely no practical electrical experience.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Let us know; how the motorking fuse box works out for you; they seemed to make an effort, to improve the design, over the original VW part. checking your cooling/a/c fans for wear/problems and alternator charge harness wire, for resistance; is also, a good idea.
 
#36 · (Edited)
So, what do you think of the MotorKing fuse box and it’s manufacturing quality, compared to the stock VW part? Would you recommend; this upgraded design part to others? Thoughts? Thanks.
 
#37 ·
I guess I am not sure. The plastic did crack, but I am not a gentle person, I tend to break things...lol If one was not modifying it I am sure it would be fine, but my cable end was too large to fit in plastic so I ended up trimming some plastic away making it a weak point. I did really like the configuration for the fuse block, it seemed sturdy, much more so than the stock one in my opinion.
 
#39 ·
Now I have another issue. Since doing the repair my battery light comes on when you start the engine. It remains lit until about 2,500 RPMs, then it goes out and stays out until you start it again. So far it seems to be charging normally and working. Could this be a precursor to the alternator dying? Could I have done something wrong?
 
#40 ·
Good question; you might run down, to a auto parts store and have them do, a full charging system test, to confirm, everything is working ok.

If you want to try; to start checking, testing things yourself and have access to a multimeter, this video is a great guide to start testing things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDdgs5bqzZg
 
#42 ·
You might take 10 or 20 minutes; to swing by a auto parts store and have the charging system check, performed, it might save you a break down and tow! Let us know; how things go, what you experience on your test trip and we can go from there. Thanks!
 
#43 ·
I got about 4 blocks and went to roll the window up. I accidentally pulled the master window switch, the dash warning lights came on and the car started sputtering. I let go of the switch and it ran OK but lights stayed on. I turned around and came home. I tried the window switch and window went down but once again a sputtering, so I rolled it up and left it. I took my truck on the little trip I had planned :/